neace

How much "flush" does she need? She already has roomba which is a pistol round death sentence, you can't even sit in a location when it's on map. You automatically have to reveal your position and waste ammo or die. Her ult forces you to just leave and it even goes through walls a good chunk of the time. Then there is nades and satchel.

Brimstone ult forces him to stand still and cast it, why is this Raze character one shotting a whole team instantly while flying around like Jetpacks in halo? I just don't get it. It's a bad argument imo and one that only takes a few moments before you see the error in it.

That character single-handidly breaks the game right now, I don't see how these nerfs will ever suffice. The maps aren't massive playgrounds either, the mark was missed here.

Because she does not have:

• Angle blocking utility (IE smokes)
• High-density angle debuffing (IE flashes)
• Escapes
• Stalling capability
• Flank watch capability
• Restoration or recovery
• Wide-area recon
• Flexibility

Raze can do two things: flush and boost. She's very focused on doing one job and doing it a lot, at the expense of all the other types of value other characters have. It's why Raze shines in situations like Split vent, Haven Sewer or Garage, or Bind Hookah - the other areas of the map leave her with an unreliable footprint unless the enemy is being predictable or you have them cornered in.

We do agree the frequency is a bit much so we reduced the spammiest (Paint Shells) a lot.

I think the jetpack movement with two satchels is also something we wanna watch. It's pretty non-tactical and does some weird combat maneuver stuff that is out of line.

IkeKap

Can you consider in game surveys as well. It would make providing feedback in a directed manner a lot easier

We're looking into this now, just not feasible with the current state of the client in beta. Hoping we can add it down the line!

KevinDL

No mention of the ranked system we were suppose to be getting after 2 weeks? Been 2 weeks...

Not sure on the ETA, but we won't turn it on while shit like Cypher cam gun and boost exploits exist. Need a clean game to make the competition seem meaningful, otherwise I think the rank won't feel real and earned.

SemiAutomattik

Rip bhopping being useful, not a fan of that change. Bhopping thru the orb was a risky and high skill cap way of countering the orb. Not a fan of any change that lowers the skill cap.

High skill floor way (IE once you can do this, it's trivial to do - it's not "tested" - so it's hard to access but easy to do after you access that).

Your point on tradeoffs isn't lost on me here. It's something I could see returning as the game shakes out depending on where the chips lie (not soon, let's see how this goes)

KbLswag

Pretty poor to first say Raze would be exactly like she should and will not get nerfed and then giving up on people crying about her being op just cause they keep sitting in the same corners and cant react to abilitys flying ontop of them.

So now if you wanna break a Sage Wall fast without shooting you have to sacrifice ur ONLY nade. Dipshit nerf for the crybabys. SAD RIOT PRETTY SAD

Bruh when did we say we ain't nerfing?

Thecookierealm

What kind of shit Raze nerf is that? They don't realize that it's the amount of damage her abilities do and not how much charges she has right?

We do, which is why we removed a whole charge from her best basic ability.

Poliveris

is this per round or carried over? The people I see who have good gun play on raze do not use her utility. If this carries over to the next round I could see that being okay. Still will probably be an uninstall for me. Finally found a character I resignated with in gaming; Hated every OW char, same with apex etc. And it gets nerfed into the ground.

I wont be able to play her in comp as she adds no value to her team, people will hate you picking her because she was basically destroyed. Just remove her at this point... Or redue the entire character because shes pretty much obsolete

Let's...relax. ._. If a balance change is enough to make you uninstall, bruh, this is gonna be a bumpy-ass road.

Second, the kill reset is "kills from any source give you another Paint Shell." So you usually get one, and if you perform well, you get two.

Raze's value in competitive play should be clearing and flushing tight corners and angles - either forcing them into your gun and angle, or letting you ignore that area to take other fights.

If it needs to be UNTOUCHED for you to enjoy the character, then that's on you homie. I'm not worried this is gonna slam Raze into the dumpster

givemebrownies45

no complaints from me, good work devs

<3

b00xx

I think as time goes on you'll see that the nerf to Raze wasn't right.

Guns; Basic, Signature, and Ultimates abilities; all can do damage. But how do you determine the cost? In this game, everything is loosely balanced around cash. Have y'all taken a look at the cost per kill/damage? Coming from places like Magic: The Gathering, the community and the developers have a system for analyzing cards. There are several things that affect the "cost" of a card; rarity, mana cost, colors, and complexity/interactions. I believe this method can translate to Valorant with a little work.

Now going back to my original statement, I don't think the Raze nerf was correct because I think the cost per kill across her kit is much lower than other agents.

edit: Maybe that's the answer though. Raze's role is deal damage at a lower cost per kill. Right, we have initiators, intel, support, and dps roles in this game. They're just a little different looking than what we're used to. All agents can "carry" when looking at the scoreboard. I guess, in relation to that, Raze just doesn't feel quite right to me as there are no other agent options for damage like her.

Cost is a tuning lever we're happy to pull here if it needs more - agreed on the impact of cost on power like this being a good place to tune.

biggians

Unfortunate to see Sage got more nerfs than Raze. Nobody's ult should result in a guaranteed trade at worst when you're near an enemy, period. Compare Raze's damage ult to Jett's ult and tell me with a straight face you'd ever rather have Jett's.

Paint shells didn't receive a damage nerf, so they still deal 275 damage in an area and 1 well placed nade is still a free kill even on buy rounds. There's no reason an ability dishing out that much damage with that much area control should be able to refresh at all.

This character is still a mandatory pick for people playing competitively, and that's a damn shame, because she is unquestionably the least fun character to play against in the game by a huge margin.

This is where we definitely disagree, both with the outputs and the focus.

Lethal damage is a strong, potent flushing tool - and our goal is that you can dodge the Paint Shells and you lose ground. We think both reduced frequency should reduce how often this thing is actually flushing or scoring kills (a pretty big nerf), and improved audio should allow more time to dodge, and more clarity of where you're going to.

We're also super willing to keep tuning over time, both as players learn, get better and we see the impact of these changes. While we're really firm on "Paint Shells need to be lethal to flush effectively", we are open to tuning a lot of other levers such as timing, area controlled, and other things.

One of the bigger things I see is a level of gun...maybe "purity" is the right word...that I think is an expectations gap between VALORANT and CS. We're going to have lethal abilities in the game to cause threat, but we also are committed to working on making sure that the...

Hello, sorry you ran into this issue.

If you are still running into this issue can you please go to the game website, download the game installer from the website and run the installer. Make sure that you've closed the "process is already running" window before running the installer. Our team updated the game installers last night and players have confirmed that this fixed the issue.

If it doesn't fix the issue let me know and I can try to work with you to resolve it.

mloofburrow

It felt bad having a Sage orb fall at your feet and literally not being able to move because it would give away your position. Even if it is slower it's still a really good change.

P.S. - I didn't see it in the patch notes, but the tooltip for Armor is broken. It says it reduces damage by 50%, when in reality it absorbs damage. Same amount of damage goes out, it is not reduced. And it absorbs 66% of damage taken, not 50% as displayed in the tooltip. Sorry, I'm an MMO nerd, so precision of language is important. :)

No apologies needed, this bothers me too (also an MMO nerd). I'll look into this

u/PhilosopherDave - i saved this thread so i could come back and update you. This type of flavor piece of work is something we absolutely wanted to do at some point but was generally lower priority and marked as a polish item. I can confirm for you now that this has been addressed and will be updated in game in the future. additionally when you're at 0/0 when you inspect you'll no longer see a shell inside the weapon. :)

dydx4j

please stop watching reddit

Let me clarify - we use Reddit and Twitter to stay in touch with the community and communicate about the game. One of my roles on the team is to provide data for us to make decisions off of though, which is why we utilize things like surveys and data analytics to gather objective measurements of sentiment and content performance. Valorant's a global game and we can't keep in touch with player sentiment just by checking out some English-speaking social media channels from time to time, which is why we have these other sentiment gathering tools to lean on.

One of our core tenants on the balance team is to not "kneejerk" and be methodical, thoughtful, and data-informed with our changes, so if you're worried about us freaking out over Reddit threads we've all been through it before on League and other game dev jobs in the past.

SHAWNANOMALY

Glad to hear that the Devs don't see Raze as OP despite the loud crying. The slight nerf with the nades is a nice concession. Those that found her annoying because they didn't counter/respect her are still going to cry about her though they will be without the excuse about being doubled naded.

Raze is a good agent, but isn't grossly strong by the numbers by any means - we're looking at fractions of a percentage difference in terms of her performance compared to other agents, and we've been watching her performance decline over time as players get more experience in the game and playing against her.

That being said, some of her abilities aren't meeting our clarity goals for how severe their punishment is, so we're hoping these changes will help (there's actually a lot involved in those audio changes there). On top of that, reducing it down to 1 grenade will encourage Razes to be more thoughtful about their utility, and rewards good Razes by giving them access to more grenades than the baseline with kill resets.

She's strong enough that she can take a thwack on the head right now and stay perfectly viable, while also giving everyone a bit more breathing room and information to get comfortable. If she ends up being too weak after these changes as time goes on, we can always ...

We are doing a pass on all the buddy locations! Not intended that it doesn't show up as clearly. Sorry about that! :(

Gucmann

I just posted the same thing. It really is barely visible :D im sad :(

We are doing a pass on all the buddy locations! Not intended that it doesn't show up as clearly. Sorry about that! :(

PM_UR_NSFW_ALT

I think her ult plays ok. It seems like it is too easy to get points for given her 'free' lethality. We'll see how the one grenade changes the feel of it overall.

Yeah, hopefully with grenade change will also lower the amount of kills and ult points she's generating as well. We're definitely keeping an eye on things.

multigrain_cheerios

so just want some clarification, does the silent option only affect walking in the slow or does it affect all movement through the slow area (running, jumping, etc)?

Only walking in the slow! Running and jumping will still make noise.

villa277

Oh well, I hope it gets solved as soon as possible. I get that it is a beta and errors are expected. I'm just sad because I got to play the game (and expend some money) and this error suddenly started happening. I will be looking for fixes on reddit anyway. At least you are actually talking and solving problems and being as transparent as possible about it which is better than many developers!.

I certainly get the pain - we're also working on compatibility fixes. Thank you so much for your patience and I understand how frustrating it is to have this, then it's taken away.