bz6

Man no offence but why do game developers love to think their player base is dumb? We are not scared to see a lot of numbers in an ADVANCED tooltip, that’s the whole point of it. I get it you guys are trying to improve the system for the new players and if a simple display of information is lacking, God knows how dumbed down the pre-season item overhaul is going to be 😕

Its not a matter of smart or dumb (honestly people playing this game can handle a lot more complexity than most others). Its a matter of intuitiveness. As a designer I want people to find the information they're looking for quickly. I could write out all the information in one long string of numbers, but then you'd have to spend a bunch of time scanning the longer formulas to find the ones you want. My assertion is that a player who is advanced enough to always show the extended tooltip would be advanced enough to see that shift-hovering their tooltip was the fastest way to get that particular information.

bz6

Why does the extended tooltip NOT show the total damage after scaling calculations. That makes zero sense? It is an advanced tooltip it should the math for us. I don't want to see the scaling in brackets, I want to see the contribution the scaling has had to my spell in damage.

/u/Reinboom /u/BarackProbama /u/RiotMaxw3ll

You get the total damage from the base tooltip, and between "ratios" and "amount contributed per scaling", the former is more useful to players whle in-game to determine what item purchases would most benefit them.

RiotMaxw3ll

Heyo! I'm looking into this now. Will try and have an update for yall soon.

The intended functionality is that you see ratios in extended tooltips and the total damage in basic, but it looks like if you're doing advanced tooltips only, its skipping over the damage total.

Okay, so it looks like the system is not cooperating, and the advanced tooltips won't be able to show the total as well as the ratios. So for Yone specifically, I've reverted the tooltip calculation changes so the advanced tooltip will show the base damage plus the amount from scalers, meaning you can figure out the total damage that way. We'll look to get in a better fix for 10.18.

Heyo! I'm looking into this now. Will try and have an update for yall soon.

The intended functionality is that you see ratios in extended tooltips and the total damage in basic, but it looks like if you're doing advanced tooltips only, its skipping over the damage total.

bz6

Surely total damage is important in Advanced as well right boss? That's the point of an "advanced" tool tip.

yeah, the system is supposed to allow you to see both. I'm going to do a quick fix for now until we can get the underlying systems working.

RuneKatashima

Range on abilities onegai. Missile (including dash) speeds!

Just curious, what do you want that information for in tooltips?

FatherMcHealy

On champions with skills that say "after a short delay" on some abilities can we get an actual time that the delay is. Pyke's Phantom Undertow for example, would be nice to get clarification on how long it takes for the phantom to follow

My current plan is "after a short delay" is used for things less than 0.5 seconds in the base tooltip. if its above 0.25s i'll specify in extended.

Somepotato

whats the point of showing additional info if you don't show all potentially pertinent info? There's no reason to hide potentially useful info behind a veil IMO

The argument is that that information exists, just in visual form rather than a number. In order for "1200 range" to matter, you'd have to know what 1200 units means in relation to the rest of the map. The easiest way to show that is with a visual indicator.

Poluact

While we're at this can I give a couple of suggestions?

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Suggestion: Tooltips without shift should look like deals 100 damage instead of deals 50(+35)(+15) dmg.

Reasoning: Tooltips should give you information necessary for in-moment decisions like "should I all-in now, will I have enough damage" and game should provide this information in the most convenient manner. All ratios should go under an extended tooltip, because they are more relevant for planning an item build and not for moment-to-moment decisions.

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Suggestion: Ratios should provide formula instead of result. Example: not 50(+35)(+15) but 50(+0.35bAD)(+0.15AP).

Reasoning: Player should be able to estimate how much a spell benefits from various stats before buying an item to increase them.

Both of those suggestions are currently what I have slated.

ToTheNintieth

The tooltips standardization is extremely overdue. To give just one example, some spells have the base damage and the total scaling damage listed separately, some have just the scaling percentage, some add it all up, and to top it all off some list either or both in the AP green. I've been wanting them to use the advanced tooltips feature properly for a long time now. Also, please have the total damage in the shortened format.

(it should be clear what we mean when we say ability, versus spell, versus skill etc and isn’t always at present)

THere's a difference?

THere's a difference?

There is now. Skill = a champion's PQWER, Ability = a Skill, Summoner Spell, or active item. Spell is currently retired.

bz6

Will interface still have the toggle “always show advanced tooltips”? Can’t see a reason to remove such an option.

/u/RiotMeddler

yeah, that toggle will still work

ScrollLockKey

It would be nice if the advanced tooltip mentioned more specific things, like cast time, range, radius, angle, etc. I always need to go to the wiki to find that stuff.

We opted out of showing things that are already shown by the targeting indicator. Cast time is an interesting one, but in general players can intuit cast time after using the spell once or twice, and doesn't really need to be referenced in most cases.

FabioSxO

I mean some champs don't even have advanced tooltips while some do

Part of this work will be making sure all champs have them.

bloodwolftico

Hey Meddler, please give us the option to keep advanced tooltips "on/off" (perhaps w a toggle option in the menu), for those of us who'd like to have as much info as possible at all times, and for those that don't care/want and can feel overwhelmed (like new players).

hat will be the case since that option is already in the game bjt o my a handful of Champs utilize it.

That setting already exists. Its in the Interface tab in options.

Ildigrub

It says her E goes until it hits something. Does that mean I can throw it down the entire length of a lane theoretically?

Theoretically. It will stop on terrain, and turrets count, so the angle would need to be pretty precise.

Wiko660

4s rank 1 cd, right?

All ranks.

Rin_Hoshizura

How do you guys feel about her being played top?

I don't like jungle but I've been waiting a faun character forever and I'm not gonna let anything stop me but I'm wondering if it was discussed or tested or anything.

We tested it for sure. I think it’ll be a fine off role for her. She can clear waves pretty safely, but she’ll need to find a way to translate that into a snowball

ItsReallyJustAHorse

Implying that phase rush isn't optimal so you can reach "I can't control my character anymore" speeds

Being ‘too fast’ came up a lot in testing.

Caenen_

Last question from me; What was the decision behind making W use clamped range (casts to max range in the direction if targeted outside) rather than having her walk into range? Using center W and not accidentally undershooting it on a static (asleep) target might take a few games getting used to.

It was a choice between two feels bads. If I made it targeted, it would feel weird to use as a move spell, and as a clamped range spell, it feels weird to sweet spot with it. I don’t love how it feels but after testing both, I think this one is overall better.

Yeah I tested various versions of other scalings for the outer ring, but true damage had the right mix of ‘freedom to start on either buff’ and clearing potential she needed. That’s not to say I’m unwilling to change it, it’s just that my best read in our testing environment was that this created the better jungler.