The latest Dive episode actually went into this when they were discussing the "Tier 2 teams" Where Kobe initially was placing EG higher up in the rankings of the stack, but took back his opinion after MarkZ basically laid out his argument that EG was bottom of the list of Tier 2 teams at best due to their failures to turn around wins against teams they were supposed to win against based on the credits given to them.
I actually say TSM and TL above FLY/EG right from the start!
I don't know what math Kobe is using to say that Orb/Morellonomicon is better than Void Staff until you get to 90 MR.
Break even point of 40% pen vs 15 flat is 37.5 MR. @ 90 MR you have 36 Mpen on Void Staff.
Maybe he was saying Gold efficiency per point of Mpen? Well at 1600 Orb gives you 1 magic pen for 106.67 gold. To get to the same value, of just Mpen, disregarding the health on orb and much higher AP on Void, a complete vacuum of gold cost per point of Mpen. Your target needs to have a MR value of 62 (62*.4=24.8 Mpen) then you take that vs the cost of Void Staff (2650g/24.8 pen = 106.85g per point of Mpen), so still less than the 90 MR value claimed.
Just talking about the gold efficiency of Orb vs Void.
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Void_Staff
Also, magic resistance scales in effectiveness with your max HP, so flat penetration against relatively low max health targets with low levels of magic resistance goes a long way. You can see the calculations and conversions to damage reduction on the wiki as well:
TL;DR: (in front because this comment is very possibly not worth reading in full) Morello and Void might be roughly equal at 90 MR if you consider total gold efficiency on both sides, but it would vary wildly from one game to the next. In most cases Morello would be more efficient so u/a_lol_cat is basically correct anyway. I just felt like going into more detail for no reason
I think he must have been talking about gold value, and also mostly about a full Morellonomicon. Once we're talking about gold value you have to start considering the value of the health that comes from Morello's. I'll leave out the Grievous Wounds passive in comparing the two but it's worth keeping in mind.
Morello has the same AP as Void, and although it costs 350g more, it has 801g worth of HP. You also left out Sorcerer's Shoes in your calculations. At 90 MR, Sorcs+Morello gets it down to 57. Sorcs+Void gets it down to 43.2, which is still about 13.8 less MR you're dealing with if you have Void Staff. So you're still correct in terms of raw damage.
Now we get a little bit into the weeds about gold efficiency overall, not just in a vacuum. Everything from this point is theoretical because it depends on everything else in the game... but in an average game Kobe may have been right. Maybe.
Consider that the opponent has to have 13.8 more MR in order for Void Staff to do more in terms of magic pen over Morello. Not accounting for completed MR items, that much raw MR amounts to just under 250g. Meanwhile, if you consider the gold value of Morello's HP being 801, minus the 350g difference between it and Void, you have an extra 451g in raw stats, and if the opponent has 90 MR, you end up having 200g more in stats than they do - but again only in a vacuum; with completed MR items it would probably be close to equal.
Again that last paragraph depends so much on the context of each individual game. I don't think Kobe was using 90 MR as a proven figure, but more as a theoretical baseline for gold efficiency. Depending on the game it can vary wildly and in most cases Morello would still likely be the most efficient.
Just talking about the gold efficiency of Orb vs Void, nothing to do with the game state.
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Void_Staff
Also, magic resistance scales in effectiveness with your max HP, so flat penetration against relatively low max health targets with low levels of magic resistance goes a long way. You can see the calculations and conversions to damage reduction on the wiki as well:
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_resistance
Read moreOh hey it's really you!
Thanks for clarifying. Now that I see your source it makes total sense. I didn't consider max HP as part of it.
I love you, dude who thinks This is the same word as That, but is still able to wake up on time, so that should make up for it. I never doubted you or your alarm clock.
Thank you for reading my gibberish and caring enough to gather links and respond. You're a legend.
Ahahaha thank you! I've tried to give my explanation of "this" to flowers but he won't have any of it. Here's how my mind works: "This" always refers to the thing that is closer to me for some reason, on my side. And "that" is always the far away answer or something that isn't mine. And I'm always backwards because I'm on the "that" side of the show! Ty for coming to my Ted talk xD
*total item gold efficiency
Gold cost per point of Mpen is still = at 62 MR with Orb v Void
I was coming from a evaluation of just the cost per point of Mpen. After digging I see where the 90 MR number comes from, it's just including stats other than Mpen, which I get now that's what you were referring to.
Appreciate the clarification.
Sorry for the confusion! Looking back at the segment it is even more jumbled than I thought because me, Mark, and Azael all bring up slightly different arguments before we've finished talking about any single one >.<
On the bright side, since so many people were confused, im getting a new segment started soon with Phreak where we make clean visuals to explain some of these things with concise language that hopefully will come out in the next month or so! I also find the lol wiki had some really useful tidbits of info if you are interested in these sorts of things.
Ok, if you all really want an adc vote that isn't "building my own team..." I'll throw Kobbe's name out there!
Don't worry, the real all pro votes at the end of the split will be according to the rules :P
Happy cake day!!!!!!!!!!
Tyty <3
hey kobe what is your op.gg?? I have been trying to get better at jungling and want to see what items/paths/builds that you are doing. It doesn't seem to be riot kobe, so idk what it is.
I keep it hidden so I don't get targeted and flamed haha. It can get pretty brutal out there D:
Thank god, my stocks are so bad.
This injection puts you from dead last to first! 😂
Hey everyone, just wanted to reach out and say thanks to all y'all that sent good vibes my way about the show over the past year. It was a new kinda content for me and took some getting used to so reading how much enjoyment people got out of it was awesome.
For the people who didn't see my followup tweet: No I'm not getting phased out of LCS. I'll be back on the games as soon as coronavirus fucks off and we get things back to normal. This decision is about me taking care of me. I'm not 100% sure who's gonna take my place, but I have faith the show will go on in style.
I'm really going to miss doing the show with you buddy T.T Especially since we can't hang out at the office or go to the gym right now. I'm always here to talk or play some games though! (I can also fund you in POE pretty soon :P)
You play POE? Do you stream? What build are you playing?
Doing a strength stacking Cyclone champion atm!
What build are you playing? Need some inspiration 🙂
I made a strength stacking Cyclone champion with Pillar of the caged god for league start since its basically a free weapon!
Watcha running this league Kobe?
I made a strength stacking Cyclone champion with Pillar of the caged god for league start since its basically a free weapon!
What build are you rolling to not get obliterated by Delirium?
I made a strength stacking Cyclone champion with Pillar of the caged god for league start since its basically a free weapon!
What build are you running in POE, Kobe?
I made a strength stacking Cyclone champion with Pillar of the caged god for league start since its basically a free weapon!
What is your starter build for delirium?
I made a strength stacking Cyclone champion with Pillar of the caged god for league start since its basically a free weapon!
Man I love Flowers and Kobe, they're a great duo.
<3
My flash mentality is D for DO IT!
I really like the way Phreak and Kobe casted this game. They treated it like it was game 5 of the world finals between the two best teams in League history. It made it a lot more fun to not have to hear about how dumb/bad everyone was the whole time.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it! We were having a lot of technical difficulties behind the scenes and I was worried my ISP and audio issues would ruin it.