Should base dmg nerfs on abilities also be included? Or it wouldn't make a difference for this strat?
The more changes you include the harder it is to get it right.
Nerf Shiv (13.18 didn't nerf the wave clear enough)
Surely the 5th nerf to waveclear specifically will be enough
To be fair we started with buffing it twice.
That was wrong.
If leblanc never touched the item, would you have nerfed it over and over.
The goal was to get Kraken, Stormrazor, and Shiv to be roughly equally powerful. It's fine if one was more popular than another.
Kraken we hit pretty quickly. Shiv people considered underpowered but wasn't (after the first set of changes) and eventually people caught on. Stormrazor we slightly over-nerfed.
I wish we hadn't kept pushing the minion mod when initially tuning it on Live; it launched with more than enough minion damage and we should have just given it stats instead.
May I ask why haven't you/if you thought about going in a different direction of nerfing the item, meaning changing the scaling to let's say ad or crit. And more so if changing the amount of targets it strikes (could scale with lvl/something) so it wouldn't be that powerful early but still did its job lategame.
Don't get me wrong, I am a life time Mage player and I enjoyed building the first iterations of the shiv because it was fun but it was so not fun playing against it if you weren't too. That got me thinking if amount of targets+scaling shouldn't be a bit different.
I truly don't believe Shiv needs to scale with AD or Crit. It also already scales hits with level.
- The item's stat profile says it's bad on mages. The fact that LeBlanc and only LeBlanc abuses this item means this is a LeBlanc scaling problem, not a mage poaching problem.
- We are trying to make items scale less as an overall game direction. Considering a full build has 5 items with unique passives, if they near the power level of spells (think about the AP ratio on Lich Bane and compare it to Jax W, consider Nashor's Tooth and compare it to something like Kai'Sa passive or Kayle P/E), then you start playing your items' patterns more than your champion's. In small doses this is fine (Lich Bane again).
Giving it an AD/Crit ratio just brings us back to the item scaling, makes it especially hard to balance for Rengar or Yasuo/Yone, and just isn't needed.
Now if the argument is that Shiv just shouldn't be a first item (no Noonquiver, removing either AD or AS), then that's a worthy disc...
Read moreWait so technically this is its first nerf. In theory?
One of the patches just straight nerfed the AP ratio I think.
You just level up and Fast Forward until a new wave spawns that is your level
Minion health is not based on level it is based on game time.
I have a question with shiv, given how important the item is for Kaisas hybrid build (which should honestly remain her best build given how important it is to her fantasy), do you have any plans on how to ensure her hybrid build remains viable once shiv is more appropriate balance wise?
Even if Shiv disappeared tomorrow I think it's possible to retain hybrid through minor kit changes. As long as all three evolves are very powerful and each stat scales her strongly enough, you can make her want to buy all three core stats.
Do you think part of the issue is that Shiv has better base stats than kraken? 50v40 AD is a pretty big difference
Eh, Kraken's unique is stronger on average.
Gold efficiency is an overrated metric.
i think since patch 13.14 Shiv nerf it's became clear that the LB problem is not a Shiv AP ratio problem but LB herself since she is the only mage/assassin that builds the item because she can get away with a lot of things now she is building full-on AD so the "shiv AP ratio is the problem" was wrong since she is building 0 ap now
Yep, and if this build had popped up in 13.14, we would have addressed AD LeBlanc much sooner.
Why are you so dead set into roles you defined for champions? Every time something new and interesting comes out you force champions back into what you decided should be their role.
ALso why nerf LB so hard when stattik is the main reason for this strategy? LB already has issues farming under turret, now lowering her AD further, what we supposed to do? Have 5 cs 10 minutes in hard matchups?
If AD LeBlanc's gameplay didn't suck, we wouldn't have a problem with it.
But AD LeBlanc's gameplay is quite miserable.
its a pro change not a soloq change, did you not watch the video? he even says its for pro teams hoping to make more team comps viable
No I didn't.
But isn't Lee Sin balanced around that winrate,similar to Akali,Azir,Aphelios,etc?
Lee Sin doesn't have the pro presence of Azir. So the best players in the world with hundreds of games of experience on him indicate that they don't think he's very good, either.
u/PhreakRiot will allies still be able to see when we ping our own abilities and items? I use this constantly to remind teammates that the range on Nocturne ult is much smaller than they think from 6-10
Yes. Pinging your stuff is unchanged.
What about pinging my ult, and my teammate's ults to coordinate a team fight? Often I will ping that my teammate and I have flash ready to coordinate a gank. I will ping that I'm about to respawn when I died and I'm hoping my team lets me get baron/elder buff. I will often ping that my teammate is about to be up- so there's a chance they can stall long enough for us all to respawn- "don't give up yet!"
So I'm going to be locked out of using the pings as intended because people don't know they can mute unhelpful players? Sure.
The only pings that are changing this patch are the ones on teammates. Self, neutral, and enemy pings are unchanged.
Can i ping myself as alive? I use that all the time to show i am there to a teamfight or that i’m dead and won’t be there.
Yes
Wish you could say the same about Tryndamere's attack range.
That isn't changing.
Also the ult ping is super useful for letting teammates on the other side of the map know when your opponent ults
That isn't changing.
I still don’t get why they don’t implement it like Xayahs passive. Make the focused target a guaranteed hit.
We had this discussion.
One of the designers literally started quoting Twitch lines.
Long story short we elected to give him some level of unreliability (you can Flash for example) but in the average case he will hit.
But isnt Lee being buffed specifically for pro play? I can't see how he fits into these categories.
Lee Sin is like 48% everywhere.
Win rate is not power (not exactly anyway, they're obviously correlated) but also his teammates are the ones on the receiving end of that 48% win rate and they've been receiving that for several months. He could stand to be buffed even just for his teammates' sakes.
I'm not sure anyone can with a straight face claim a "jungle clear speed nerf" matters when at the earliest it could take effect is level 8, for -5 damage.
By the time Lee Sin has E maxed, he is level 13 and has enough AD that -20 damage is irrelevant to clearing (as if a level 13 jungler cares about clear speed...). But more realistically Lee is maxing E last, so this nerf means at level 14 Lee Sin is now missing a whole 5 damage on his clears, while casually throwing out 700+ damage Q nukes to monsters.
Or calling the W change a 'nerf'. It's massively better until level 13, where Lee Sin now gets -1% omnivamp. The early game jungler getting a whopping +5% omnivamp levels 2-7 far outstrips the 'nerf' of level 13 Lee healing 20 less health per 2k damage dealt.
Most Lee Sin jungles max W 2nd.
For ~75% of Lee Sin players this is a 5 damage nerf at level 14.