UNOvven

I dont quite get the selection of runes being nerfed. Why are Dark Harvest and Electrocute being nerfed harder than Conqueror and Lethal Tempo? Or hell, why are they nerfed harder than First Strike, First Strike already arguably outperforms them most of the time.

The initial plan was to sidegrade Electrocute etc., which is why there were only some runes on the list. Goal was to take from gold scaling and give to level scaling, lowering snowballing slightly.

But we ended up going with minor power nerfs instead. For clarity, this is about 6% less damage on Electrocute until 3+ items. Ultra-late it's up to 25% less damage.

So because of that, we're adding more runes to the list. We're generally targeting about 10% less power across the primary offensive keystones. The PBE is not final, etc. etc. Lethal Tempo was always expected to be nerfed. This means Phase Rush, Grasp, etc. get more powerful by comparison. In the short term that's fine, though I suspect that's not healthy long term.

Black_Creative

That's a Lord Doms nerf not an adjustment lmao

LDR also has a functionality change. On Live, it doesn't damage amp against shields, which is changing here.

Datamining is only so accurate.

UNOvven

Has there ever been a discussion about making pro less mage heavy? I honestly miss seeing ad assassins be picked in pro, even moreso outside of the jungle.

Me, too.

It'd be a pretty difficult project with significant implications even if it landed correctly. Maybe that gets prioritized against all the other work we could do but I'd guess it's not top 10 right now.

papu16

What you think about LT that is most popular ADC rune in the game and for ranged champs it wasn't nerfed at all? Rn it just really above alternatives in terms of power and I would be happy if marksmans had some keystone diversity again.

PtA and Fleet both tend to outperform LT on average. Even Hail has a number of great users.

That LT gets auto-selected is more a fault of ADC players, not rune power level.

daswef2

Is keeping his anti-magic identity holding him back then from being easier to balance? Because most of my games in midlane are against Zed, Yone, Yasuo, Pantheon, Naafiri and other AD champs unless I ban them, grand majority of team comps are pure AD in regular play. If he is projailed by identity as an anti-magic champion, wouldn't removing him from projail be better for everyone?

I'll take fulfilling a compelling fantasy over balance every day.

Plenty of champions have successful thriving player bases even if they aren't strictly strong. There's a reason you've got Taliyah and Galio flairs and not Maokai and Sion.

And to be clear, Galio is a rock (petricite) solid 50% win rate mid laner and support right now. It's not like he's bad. He's been 47% while a priority pro pick.

MoscaMosquete

How will that work vs people with low HP receiving shields? Will it suddenly increase damage against them?

You're misunderstanding what I wrote. It's not counting shields as health. It's failing to amp against shields.

MorbidTales1984

Based Phreak, a fellow HoB Trist enjoyer.

And old Essence Reaver. CDR is such an underrated stat on her.

SyriseUnseen

While I dong necessarily think runes need as much power as they have currently, Im very concerned about this approach. I thought by nerfing ratios you meant just that, not basically just removing them.

5% might as well not exist. And I dont mean that in a "tilted" way, I mean it's so insignificant that it just shouldnt be there, just increase the base a bit more in the final levels and delete it. This is now just extra text.

The designer on it was worried about potential cross-class poaching. e.g. Electrocute Sejuani. I think that's a reasonable call to make.

I don't think there is a problem with largely-cosmetic scaling ratios, though.

Either way, you get 1-2 free "levels" of it across the average game via gold scaling. That's not nothing. It's also not a lot, which is intended.

I can’t speak for anyone else but my first thought is, “ok let’s make Baron and staff of flowing water do something when you receive the buff. What’s a number that feels good but won’t make this clearly an AP champ?”

But then that usually has to be lower because of Sylas.

I do like the idea of specifying a bespoke AP ratio to each one, though.

SkeletonJakk

I'm very curious as to where you think Kled fits into this

Kled's weird. And as far as I can tell, Kled players like that he's weird.

Whodoesntlovetwob

Can we please get a list of what is considered light,mid and heavy(I presume) fighters? Just to have a general idea.

Very broadly and not official:

No dashes at all? Probably heavy (Mordekaiser, Darius, Mundo). Items like Dead Man's Plate and Jak'Sho make sense for them. "Juggernaut" tends to apply here.

A button that makes you immune to damage for a short time? Probably light.

Neither of those? Probably medium.

Of course there are more than enough exceptions to make this not really apply. Red Kayn actually has Skirmisher/Light tools but clearly builds midsized and honestly should. But it's a decent starting framework.

ProfDrWest

/u/PhreakRiot

Does this ult cooldown thing not go directly against what you argued for ult cooldowns in your recent videos?

On average, sure. But every champion is unique. There are a lot of moving parts.

For example, long cooldown ults tend to be pro skewed, since the game is slower paced. I also don't think Jinx R can get that much stronger per cast. In the case of Jinx, a low cooldown ult can make sense. More of her power is in an impactful ability that she doesn't have strong gold scaling over. I do think Jinx could be nudged a bit away from "great platform for converting gold into DPS" and more, "All my buttons are weapons of mass destruction but I'm also still an ADC"

EpicSpooker

Finally he says it: no one is going to be satisfied with how they balance fighters. At this point they have tried literally everything and people have complained about it all. Personally, I think that fighters need a “broken” thing to be viable because of their inherit lack of range and imo this should be haste and/or durability. I do disagree on his opinion on assassins though. They should have high cooldowns but high damage. Get one kill and get out.

My stance (and I'm in a position to enforce it, mwa ha ha ha ha) is that "mid-size" fighters should be:

• Durable
• Using haste as a core stat
• Damage threats
• Fairly target agnostic

Not all fighters fall directly into the above. Skirmishers (Riven, Master Yi, Fiora, Viego, Tryndamere) are on average much less durable or rely on a "parry" (Fiora W, Yi W... Tryndamere R lol) in order to survive. But someone like Jarvan or Hecarim? Oh yeah, those bullet points apply IMO.

droppedmyravioli

AH lowered for everyone means differently for different champions/roles.

Of course every champ wants to cast abilities more often, but the adc Twitch would not be affected by lower AH as much as the Aatrox

Twitch also presently buys 0 AH unless he's AP Twitch.

FREE REAL ESTATE BABYYYYYYYYYY

justareddituser12

i don't see how? the guy above you didn't make the implication that "just w tap and q3+flash" was his entire expression, you did. also way to skip over everything else, man. very constructive. a little ironic to be talking about good faith when you choose to ignore any criticism put before you. you put as much effort into your replies as you put into your job it would seem.

I literally quoted him.

MohamedRefai

u/PhreakRiot

i know this is early in the patch and data might be fake but the shiv nerf looks pretty big since now you can't kill casters with 2 procs the item might be dead. so:

would you look to change Kai'sa if the cheese umpral+dusk build became her best/most popular build since hybrid Rageblade is being hit again and, to be honest, Statik is the only good starting item for Rageblade hybrid. the AP poke build looks a lot weaker/(dead maybe) since when you build shiv+nashor's+ap mythic you heavily rely on the shiv wave clear since you don't have Q evo but shiv+rageblade as a second item looks okay since you have Q evo lvl 9 if you start Dblade but still affected by the nerf and the umbral+dusk being her best build i think is not ok since it's really cheese either you snowball and it feels very strong or you don't and be kinda useless

A large amount of the measured Shiv nerf is LeBlanc and Zeri, who were directly nerfed this patch.

It looks to be about -0.5% win rate of power, which is reasonable.

FFrazien

All Out resets Q charge, intentional or ?

Yes. This is how Yasuo handles it as well.

Apprehensive-Pick-68

Phreaks career path is insane

lmao

Bootlegs

Dreamhack was known the world over.

Yeah put some respect on that name.

albens

I will never forget Phreak saying rumble jungled sucked even though he was pick/ban in MSI lmao. And this was before he joined the balance team, imagine the shit he's doing since he joined.

Except he wasn't lmao. The bracket stage was all Udyr-Morgana.

These things are objectively measurable and you can't do the bare minimum of being accurate on easily verifiable facts.