This thread is nice.
I remember we did try this on Aphelios a while back in development - each weapon had some relative downside. That version was really hard to play because you had to track both the current weapon's weakness and your backpack's gun's weakness to figure out how to optimize your basic attacks at any given moment.
I'm not on SR team so I don't have any say here, but my take is that I don't really think he needs fundamental mechanics changes yet. He's an ADC in almost-2k20 without a dash and frequently without a CC, so when his damage isn't high enough to kill divers on the entry I think he'll feel pretty reasonable to play against.
Read moreWant to first say I'm really excited for these changes. However I was curious to hear why you guys didn't revert the e change from way back, the stated reason for slowing down the second e was he abused Rylai's and made it undodgeable, that's no longer a problem. I'm sure you had your reasons. Just curious.
I felt we had at least two problems we could address - reliability of E augment and satisfaction of W augment - with the same clean solution (slow from W augment).
I don't see this going live at all unless they cut power somewhere else. Free rylais passive is absolutely nutty on that champion. His damage is absolutely brokenly absurd if all of his abilities actually land, which is probably the reasoning for the theme of delayed damage to begin with.
We certainly do need to account for the power we're adding. We know there's a real risk here, but we think the upside is worth it.
Fully expect the W augment change to be reverted but otherwise these changes are incredible. Huge props to u/RiotJag and u/RiotZhanos for listening to the Viktor Mains community.
Haha, I'm a little more optimistic but we'll see...
I agree, but Riot most of the time, for some reason, is flat-out putting their foot down when making some changes, namely some prototype mechanical changes, in that if and when they don't work out, they don't revert said changes, but rather try to keep the last set of changes, whilst making bigger massive changes on other areas of the kit that no one really asked for or wanted.
Basically, it feels like they don't learn much from said experimentation, or, rather, are sometimes doing experimentation/different shit just for the sake of doing it, and not because it is necessarily better in any manner. As if they don't fully understand what aspect of any given champion its players actually like and play said champion for.
I see what you're saying. For instance, I know a lot of Kled mains' response to the healing reduction changes were basically "stay away from my champ, he's fine". On the other hand, I think a fair amount of other ones were also pretty excited about upping his competitive viability. One of the problems with collecting opinions on forums (particularly on Reddit) is that it's very hard to believe a dissenting opinion has any real amount of people behind it (not saying this is you or anything, just in general).
A lot of these experiments carry a lot of risk and are pretty hard to tell if they're successful without giving them some time. As an example, I remember a lot of people thought the Volibear E change to deal extra damage to airborne units was a bad one, but now it seems like Voli means really like that aspect of him and are pointing to it as something they'd like to keep. We're doing our best to learn, but there's definitely hits and misses.
Read moreI didn't do those changes, but I think we targeted Kled/Kat specifically because they hadn't seen much play in a competitive environment, so they were good candidates for these types of outputs. Varus has been a staple in pro play for quite a while so it didn't make sense to give him another tool.
Fine. You got us. You know the secret. We can't seem to design champions without relying on this gimmick.
Hope you're happy with yourself.
This answer is less interesting than you'd think. It's not champions with the highest DPS; it's the ones that have a lot of damage that they cannot access penetration items for. Assassins would be among the least affected here since they pretty much already do true damage on targets they care about.
So, that'd mostly be hybrid damage champions like Jax or Kog'maw. Cassiopeia would probably be the happiest mage here but that's only because she can't build Sorcs.
I like to call this the Novalas effect.
I don't want to get into particular examples here (Akali/Qiyana) but I think this is a pretty interesting post and I like your approach to making your argument.
Something we go back and forth on a lot in champion design is the balance between holding to conventional strengths and weaknesses versus finding creative/unique ways to differentiate new play patterns. Let me interrupt the memes here before they start: yes, adding new and unique kits to League of Legends is important, and always will be. The challenge is ensuring they have the proper constraints.
To be more topical, a Skirmisher crossing into Assassin territory on certain outputs is reasonable (we do this with FioraE [burst damage] and YasuoR [target access] for instance), and vice versa, but we've also definitely crossed into territory where we end up giving certain champions too much. One of the reasons you see this a lot in our modern fighter design is that a ton of our recent efforts are pretty aggressive champions ...
Read moreYa love to see it.
You all have PCs right?
nice
This seems like something they would (again) look at for gameplay clarity, so gonna tag /u/RiotJag on this one to see what he knows.
If you're reading this Jag, there are also a large amount of VO lines still absent after I told you about it in April and some of those were SUPPOSED to stay in from what I've been told (the honeyfruit lines, primarily) but aren't showing up in-game. Her growl on taunt is missing as well at least on Bullet Angel (and I can confirm this from personal testing).
I think when I sent you the info in April you got the lines we were talking about mixed up, because the ones I was referring to (honeyfruit, missing ping etc.) were on PBE but never made it to live or have stopped working since.
I'm guessing the VFX artists iterated explicitly for gameplay reasons at the time. The spell interactions are still pretty clear, so I don't think we'd unnecessarily amp particles now - that tends to add up to a lot more noise in-game.
I'll pass along this thread to a VO engineer to look into any missing lines.
Super creative, lots of bonus points for naturally matching themes of the champions to new outputs for Hearthstone. I'd play this set!
Those are awesome. I love #1.
This question is for RiotMaxw3ll. Why are you such a memelord?