Hijacking, but if eight bot are fighting against each other, what gonna happen ?
In what way? :0
They will play the game to the best of their abilities against each other as 2 distinct teams with 4 distinct champion brains on each side.
Fucking a. An actual rioter giving detailed and honest information. I fucking love it.
<3 I try my best!
maybe use those bots for when a person is afk in a real game, like heroes of the storm used to do it!!!!!!
This is something we are talking about internally, but we have to wait to see how good the bots are, and we need to have a Bot available for each champion.
Once these are available, then it would be a discussion on what would be a good implementation, as many games handle this differently so we would want to be thoughtful on if/how we go about implementing it :)
Hey cool! I’ve never talked to anyone from Riot before.
Yes the new player experience has always been rough, last year I even made a post before you guys announced better bots.
It’s been difficult saying
“K the game is like this except with Junglers, also top is supposed to be solo, also you have more summoners including flash which is… necessary… also we usually fight for Dragons and objectives”
Yea, when I was a player, I was always super hyped when Rioters would respond so I try to pay it forward (especially since I joined the League dev team! Prior I was on Wild Rift and Player Support, so not a lot of relevant information for this group!).
Please do try to test the bots out on PBE! We do expect everyone to crush them, but our hope is our bots feel a lot more like true players (albeit true newbie players!)
I'm a bit disappointed that it's only intro bots. I feel like the easy bots are actually more important. You'll only be playing on intro a few times, and then easy for most of your practice time. I remember me and my friend played mostly easy bots (and then a bit of intermediate) until level 30.
Is the plan for all difficulties to be shipped on live together at least?
I feel you homie, I also want advanced bots so I can play a more even match, and I agree with you that beginner/advanced queues are more important for players.
From a dev perspective and a tech perspective though, ensuring that our bots have the fundamentals in place and testing them at scale will make Beginner/Advanced queues fundamentally easier as both are built on the backbone of intro. :D
When we do launch these bots to players on Live though, we 100% plan to replace all 3 at once. It would be a very weird experience as a new player to go from Intro (where jungling and taking objectives exists) back to the old bots where there is no jungle and no objective taking.
Read moreAre you guys using machine learning or agent based modeling to train these bots? I've wanted to do something like that for so long, but bots are against Riot's TOS sadge.
Currently, we are using Behavior Trees as a starting point but we want to investigate supervised learning longer-term as we can supplement or replace our Behavior Trees with parts of ML where it makes sense in a tree. (Ex: something that changes every 2 weeks is probably a good candidate for ML due to it frequently changing.)
Have you thought about adding an actual incentive to test patches on the PBE? i.e. rewards for your main League account?
For PBE, we do not really want to do that as PBE is located within NA, so offering an incentive might get a bunch of players from other regions to download and be a downgraded experience for all players testing since ping would be pretty bad.
But we are talking with other teams about some rewards for testing out the bots when we hit live servers to encourage a bunch of peeps to try it out!
Ah I see that is unfortunate in terms of the tool on the PBE but being able to iterate upon them come live is something I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to the bots in general
Yep yep! Hopefully, the bot test goes well when we hit PBE so we can ramp quickly into making the Beginner/Advanced bots :D
So there are some preexisting issues with bot aggro being easily manipulated, I imagine that as this first trial run comes to PBE, some of that behavior will still be evident, right?
Is there anything already known that we should keep an eye out for? I have a friend who will be on PBE trying the bots, and she's completely new, so I'm trying to take stock of anything that might be a major issue.
Yay! I would love her feedback especially then on what she liked/did not like.
I do not want to flag anything, as ideally you can give a fairly unbiased opinion and I would recommend going in with a mindset of being a newbie and just giving all feedback/pain points/recommendations you have.
I'm not sure if this was asked, but is there a rough ETA of when this will be out? Are we talking end of year or in a few months? If you can't answer this question, that's fair - I'm only really excited to see what you guys do!
I would say, be on the look out for a future dev article potentially giving some clarity around that soon.tm!
(Also.... I think my team would kill me if I stated a timeline that is too specific ;P) But we all are excited to get eyes on it from players to help us improve it prior to a full launch down the road!
When playing against new AI:
-does AI have vision of players in fog of war? if no, does it use wards?
-do champions controlled by bots get additional buffs (like in boom bots) or they are normal champions?
-do AI controlled champions get just earned gold (from CS and kills) or they get bonus gold compared to player?
-can AI roam or gank?
Hello!
-does AI have vision of players in fog of war? if no, does it use wards?
Our goal is to make bots that have no cheats or active advantages that players do not have access to, so they do not currently have vision in Fog of War that a player would not have access to. For Bots using wards, that is on our radar and something we know is accomplishable, but will be in later down the line after we get more of the core tech and more impactful feature sets for new players.
-do champions controlled by bots get additional buffs (like in boom bots) or they are normal champions?
Normal champions for this mode! As our goal is to help new players (and low ranked players) learn League, and enable easier bot creation in the future, our focus is more on making a structurally sound bot system that can help new players learn core mechanics and strategies :)
-do AI controlled champions get just earned gold (from CS and kills) or they get bonus gold compared to player?
Similar to above,...
Read moreHello u/RiotDashiJador, so I should forward the messages I exchanged with Riot Brightmoon to you:
"I hope you guys finally include jungler bots. I've been playing since 2018 today I'm level 1295 and the experience for new players is still terrible! All the new players are forced to play against bots for X levels against:
2 bots at the top, 2 in the bot, and one in the mid.
When new players go to ranked games or normal games they discover that magically there is another role within the League of Legends which is: jungler.
It is no wonder that it is one of the role that players lack the most, they are not taught to play in the jungle at the moment they enter on League of Legends. I've been talking about this for years, I hope you guys finally address this problem with a solution. And present the real game of League of Legends as soon as possible to all players who need to play vs bots first.
Games against bots should be like a regular ranked or normal game of League of Legends: 1 enemy at the top, 1 at the mid, 2 at the bot, and a jungler."
ps: today I'm level 1348
Hiya! I did see this when you posted to Brightmoon and u/RiotBrightMoon and I have chatted about this directly, and are in agreement that the 2 top meta of current bots is not an acceptable experience for our players, so we are making sure we have a jungle bot available.
We are making jungle a focus atm in order to test it during the 2 weeks on PBE Test, so please make sure you get a PBE account to help us improve them! :D
Could you give us an estimated date of when we can test it on PBE :>) ?
Hopefully, we will have an update on the timeline soon(.tm) ;P
We are on track for within 2023 though so make sure you have a PBE account, as the more feedback and games played during the PBE test, the more confident we can be in a full launch!
What will the bots do when the live service team decides to remove dragon and rift herald next preseason? Can they cope or will they be just as dumbfounded as the players are, wandering around the map aimlessly?
We work very closely with the Summoner's Rift Team and are building our utility functions to be more dynamic to changes made upstream.
In your example, if SR Team wanted to remove Dragon next season, our bot will ask a service "is Dragon up?" and if dragon is removed, the answer would be "No", so the bot would continue to act as if Dragon was down so to speak. :)
Bit of a shot in the dark but am also pretty interested in this line of work / designing bots such as these. Do you happen to have any recommendations of resources to read up on or tips to get into this particular field? Am a CS student but don’t really know where to start with something like this. Anything would be greatly appreciated :D
Yea! AI is a rapidly growing field due to ML's explosion, so it is a great area to study at the moment! I think understanding how to use ML as a tool to
I would recommend playing around in Unreal or Unity (I personally have worked in both prior to joining Riot / League) and following any AI tutorials.
When starting with AI (especially game AI), I followed a few Behavior Tree tutorials like the following:
- Pet AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALb7CmsgjUE&ab_channel=GorkaGames
- Character AI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDZh0epFTRY&ab_channel=RyanLaley
Unreal Engine 5 has also introduced a lot of cool new tools that you can also experiment with, like ML nodes for AI, along with procedural generation tools to quickly make environments that your AI can work in :)
Read moreWhat is the PO position? It's really awesome to see you reading and responding to a dedicated player's comment with an opportunity
Oh sorry! I mean the Producer / Product Lead of Bots! So I am the person who wrote the article that the OP linked :D
I would luke to see bots that can rival proplay in terms of skill. It would be amazing to use them to learn things for higher level play without actually inting at high elo. Even better if those bots permanently improve and would have some self learning, they might even find new builds and picks we don't use yet.
We have actually talked about how cool this would be! Both self-updating bots and pro-play bots are very aspirational for us that the moment, but we are trying to ensure our foundational work can be expanded towards these in the future.
Looking forward to it then, best of luck to the team!
Appreciate it!
Oh, awesome! Nice to meet u. I'm a game design student aspiring to be a rioter :)
Hello! Nice to meet you as well! Game design is very cool and very in-demand so that is great to hear :)
Please leave the news bots in the PBE indefinitely , not only some weeks for testing. PLS
I love the enthusiasm and I deeply appreciate the sentiment!
With the fact most of these bots are built with a new tech stack, and with a sustainability/scalability mindset, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get them into a position that would feel good for players and devs alike.
So by taking the Bots down after the test, we will be able to refactor/improve both the bots, the tech, and the tools so that over the long-term, we are able to release better bots and bot-related content faster!
That said, please do try them out so we can get all types of feedback! We are looking at writing a follow-up article to go a bit more into detail around the PBE test too ^
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