u/RiotSentanel u/RiotDashiJador - I was sad to see that the queue was taken down today. Was there a reason it got taken down early (10/3 instead of the originally stated 10/10)?
That said, we might try to bring it back sooner rather than later solely so we can try to make it up to all our lovely players who are willing to hop onto the PBE and play. Just depends how easy the fix is and when it makes sense.
Thank you again for playing and we really appreciate all the feedback!
Yep this is some fallout from changing affects flags for Beta Bots I am fairly certain. Vex R is a single spell (not a wrapper spell + missile spell composite implementation) which means the missile hits whatever the spell is told it's affects (allied champions, enemy champions, ..., enemy minions, neutral minions, wards, etc). Last patch, Vex R affected enemy champions, enemy and neutral minions and so on, and then the spell script decided what it should do whtn a unit was hit (if it doesnt have String Tag "champion", deal damage and keep going, if it's tagged a "champion", stop the missile, deal damage and put the mark on the target & enable recast). Now the missile just has enemy champions set as hittable.
The change here is probably for bots to better understand what a spell does (Vex Bot would have probably shot the ult at minions before to clear a wave or something), but with some misinformed understanding of what changes for a spell in which case. There are a handful of these changes this patch, which is 13.19 - worlds patch, which is particularly worrysome for such types of changes with rippling effects.
Might be worth a heads-up for u/RiotDashiJador.
Thanks for flagging! This should be fixed.
After lastest PBE patch new bots game doesn't event want to start. I tried 3 times and after everyone picked, it just kicks me back to home screen.
Thank you for flagging! We are investigating now
Played again today and can say the bots felt a bit better, Lux can use E's second cast and it's nice to see them hover towards one side of the lane on mid depending on the jungler's position. The builds are better than the ones on live, but the runes are the same default ones, Grasp for resolve main, Electrocute for domination, PTA for precision and Comet for sorcery, but even in this case, champions like Ahri are using comet, although electrocute would be better and is used by other champs like Rengar. Played the games i used as base for this report on patch 13.20 on PBE
Thank you!
Much nicer than the previous bots overall. I like that they do objectives and seem to use their abilities more like an actual person (I actually have to be worried about getting hit by CC)
Also, will there be a dev article about this test? Digging through patch notes or trying to remember date from the previous article is a bit out of the way and I feel like a decent chunk of people will forget that there's even a test going on rn.
Some things I want to note:
I think the Bots should leash their Jungler, otherwise I can just walk up by myself to the Kha'zix bot on blue level 1 with little to no consequence
Counter Jungling is a bit wonky, the Kha'zix bot went to our side of the Jungle took some camps and then pathed behind our midlane tower and took a bunch of turret shots got executed
Maybe it was just the game I was in but the ganks were very telegraphed as in the bot walked over minion vision
Bots with CC skillshots (Morg Q, Ahri E) will just throw them at your direction even if there's a Minion in the way blocking the skillshot
I can recall right in front of a tower and the bots won't make any extra effort to stop my recall (don't expect them to run to Narnia, but I'm recalling right in front of them underneath their tower)
Hello! Can you try the bots again and see if anything feels differently?
I've left some feedback on other comments but just wanted to say this was a fun test. The bots actually having a jungler is such a win for the quality of bots, and the laners actually went to reasonable lanes and bought fairly sane items (Crown rush Lux support?), which is also a big improvement. It was honestly very fun seeing them try to take dragons and fighting them there - maybe it's just the novelty but I think that will be enjoyable and helpful for new players to see rather than just a non-stop laning phase until you win.
I was playing with my boyfriend and we both agreed that these were still extremely easy, but if this is the quality of intro bots then I'm looking forward to seeing the level that beginner and then intermediate bots will play at. Not in terms of "it'll be fun for them to be challenging" (although harder bots will be fun), but it just seems like there's so much room for massive gains in the new player experience with this quality level for bots.
Definitely some kinks to work out which everyone else has already mentioned but really impressed with the step forward here.
Hello! Can you try the bots again and see if anything feels differently?
Played a few games of new bots, and I'd like to give my portion of feedback regarding that.
General:
Can't use Flash to attempt for escape or maybe even not using spells in general
Doesn't seem like trying to avoid global ults (like Pantheon R) and even when I use for example Ezreal ult just in front of bots they aren't attempting to run from it
Once one bot didn't care at all when Nexus Turrets were under attack and was keep farming near second lane turret (GameID: 4460030945)
Lux Bot:
Not using second E cast
Trying to damage with W (casting it together with E)
Tristana Bot:
- Seems like playing too aggressive sometimes for Intro bot
[This post will be updated whenever I have something to add]
Hello! Can you try the bots again and see if anything feels differently?
I've played two games, and I think they're amazing — I'm only surprised with the ADC bot taking (summoner spell) Heal while the Enchanters take Ignite or Exhaust, while building heal & shield power items. I personally think it should be the other way around.
I haven't seen the jungler bot gank in my games yet.
I understand they're Intro bots, but I also find it strange how they gather one for one at the drake objective (ADC standing there alone for quite some time, leaving them too vulnerable).
I've played with bots since 2011, I'm happy they finally get worked on. Thank you for this update.
Hello! Can you try the bots again and see if anything feels differently?
Certain spells are having their affects flags changed, completely changing their functionality. Vex R is one such example, since 13.19 the missile only hits enemy champions rather than minions and monster as well.
Changing the affects flags of spells for the Bot's implicit understanding of what can be targeted only works if it uses a composite implementation (wrapper + missile spell) where the cast targeting of a location-targeted wrapper doesnt really care for what units it's set to affect, but a spell that also spawns the missile itself WILL make the missile respect those affects flags.
Are you aware of these types of changes? (Especially since a seizable batch launched right into Worlds patch, 13.19)
Thank you for flagging! This is a bug and we will fix it within the week. We will continue to do our own sweeps, but please let us know if you find any other bugs. :)
I'm curious - what are the 3 core queues? Are they higher difficulty bots?
Intro, Beginner, Advanced!
Yea, we are currently working on Intro (but potentially the current bots are a bit hard for true League newbies -- we will do some labs with newbies to balance appropriately).
After which, we will focus on building out Beginner and Advanced, which will have more difficult bots!
I played another game to be sure, but no, they use the defaults runes in-game too. Maybe this feature has not yet been implemented in this version?
It is implemented.... It actually might be a recommended rune page though? Regardless, we shall investigate to make sure!
Thank you for reporting as we will track a bug ticket for it to double check on our end. :D
Hmm.. could it be that recommended runes simply have wrong data on the PBE since it doesn't have regular players or something? I swear when i played yesterday they were still using 1 of the old 4 starting rune pages (Had 3 bots with arcane and domination, rengar with Electro and Precision, and Nasus with grasp)
But if that's the plan anyway, I'm glad to hear it!
It actually uses the data from live player data from the live shards (not PBE specific). Were you looking at it from loading screen? If so, I believe that it is presenting default runes on loadout but their runes are set to the recommended runes at the start of the game!
Will this bot change come to customs too?
Not at first, as we want to make sure we get the 3 core queues out, but plan to after as we want to replace all current bot features. :)
I just wanted to say that, unless you already intended that, you should make bots take recommend runes and summoner spells, similar to how they already do with items.
They currently do! They also pick their lanes based on if the rune recommendation system has available runes for that role. (Rune Recommendations are built off what live players are playing/using.) :)
That's all folks! We are taking down the queue as of 10/3 in order to fix up the bots even further, address a lot of y'all's feedback and return later on with better bots. Thank you all for the feedback and see you on the rift!
Hello All!
We just released our BETA Bots: Intro onto PBE From Sept 26th-October 10th.
These bots are intended to be Intro replacements, and should be able to do the following:
We want to know your feedback on how these bots feel compared to the live bots, any tech issues you experience, or any ways you think the bots could be improved, especially as we build out our Beginner and Advanced versions!
Drop your issues and your feedback below! :D
Read moreWould you know if the bot rewrite would fix bugs like bots rage quitting and sitting in fountain
If you mean the opponent bots, those bots will AFK to try to match AFKs on the player side currently. If you see the Riot bots afk outside fo this, please let me know with a video as I am curious what to try with our bots to ensure they do not do a similar behavior!
For our new bots, for the AFK matching, we would probably not have the bot afk to match the human player, instead having a bot take over the player's character so that players can still experience a 5v5 similar to continue learning how all 5 roles in a normal League SR game interact/work together.
Not criticising the approach (I'm sure there are lots of positives), but does that mean that you'll be in a spot where intro bots are ready to hit live but they might need to wait a good few months or even more to go live as they need to wait for beginner and advanced to be done? How does your team feel about potentially having to sit on great new intro bots while they work on the other difficulties?
Yea, no worries!
So for context, we as a team are focused on making it easier for players to enter (or get back into) League after a break by providing them a lower-stress queue/learner's queue with Bot experience similar to normal PVP. (Example: Arena is a cool new game mode, lots of players came back to try it out, and I bet more players would have played longer if they could practice and learn the new mode/ try different champ comps/augments/strategies against bots first prior to going directly into PVP, where they might lose the first 10 games before 'finding the fun'.)
With this goal in mind to help ramp players into PVP, if we were to launch our Intro bots now, the New Player experience would be "enjoy these new good Intro bots" to "Pretty bad Beginner and Advanced Bots" where you once again lose ganking, jungling, and objective training. -- Thus not hitting our true goal/intent as a team of making players have a way to feel confident to go into PVP.
Additionally, having a...
Read morehello!
jumping in on that point because I've seen that behavior so often though they do it around wolves too most of the times. Any plan to also have the bots seek the Akshan out in the jungle as well or maybe just straight up have them be flagged for using e over X amount of time and if they repeat the offense the account is automatically suspended since that technique is only ever used continuously by smurfs/account sellers?
Potentially! I think we would want to see how the bots react first with the current system, and if we continue to see issues with Akshan in particular, we would probably flag this to the appropriate teams who own those systems to see what we can do.
Push comes to shove, we can make Akshan inaccessible to Co-op versus AI, and might do so for Intro bots especially, but I feel like there might be a better solution available that we can explore post launching these new bots to live. (Like being able to vote kick and replace with an Akshan Riot bot.)
I wanted to know: Though intro bots are coming first on PBE, is the plan for all difficulties to ship together on live?
Cause I feel like easy bots are probably the most important, you only play a few games on intro but then you need to practice a lot against easy bots before moving to medium and/or normals. It's also the best place to test champions.
Yea, the goal right now is to ensure intro has no major bugs/systematic pain points (especially at scale) given we are using fairly new tech.
Once that is confirmed, the intro bots feel good, we will go heads down for a bit to build out beginner/advanced queues.
Then when all 3 are in a polished-ish state, we would want to roll all 3 queues out to live environments and iterate afterwards to make them more dynamic/improved to higher skill levels/expanded feature sets.
Wouldn't it be easier to have a script detect if an Akshan swings longer than 1 Minute and flag them for a ban?It is more common tho for them to swing around Wolves.
Even easier would be to actually decide on that Akshan's swing shouldn't go longer like 30 seconds.
I could not talk to how easy or hard it is due to that being a different product space, services stack, and systems that I am not the owner of, so even if it were easier to implement, it would take time to become SMEs in that area and understand all the knock-on effects that change could have.
Regardless, we do want the bots to react similarly to humans in even strange or off-meta situations, so this Akshan behavior gives us a way to target off-meta gameplay styles for our bots.