like a baby with a knife?
Hell yeah.
okay but like.. if you could tho, what would you do with absolute power over the game?
Yasuyoung
Ahhhh mb guys, I'll resign tmrw
You better fucking not I do not want to do your job.
Oooh opening a can of worms with this one
Fuckin love worms tbh
When it feels like it’s making me play more than I want to. If I only want to play 1 or 2 games over the course of a few days and the thought “well if I just play x more even though I don’t want to then I can get y” happens, that’s too much.
Because sometimes I don’t want to play 5+ games a day in a limited time for something. Sometimes I want to take a break and play other stuff for a couple months and not come back and go “wow look at all this stuff I can’t get/ look how much extra I have to do for having the audacity to play other games.”
I’ve been playing league for 14 years. I already barely want to play, saying “you have to play x amount of games in this short period of time to achieve the thing that previously had no time limit” doesn’t make me want to play more, it makes my decision not to easier.
Edit: I very exclusively dont play games with battle passes and have hated the idea of ranked resets for that very reason. If you dont respect my time, why should I give you my money/attention?
Gotcha, so any system that asks more of you than you want to give is grindy.
I would probably say that you will become less satisfied with League over time then.
We want to create systems that reward engagement with the game. Those are usually going to take the form of rewards that are released on some time period. We think they work pretty well and most folks seem to enjoy them.
They are always going to be optional and we will always strive to be as generous as possible to folks who choose to commit time > money, but if they aren’t for you they aren’t for you.
Read moreSplit component rewards the same things each split, which mostly are marks which upgrade your permanent mastery. The title is meant for folks who display strong dedication to a single champion.
We hope it doesn't inspire fomo because even if you miss on a split you will reliably be able to get those rewards next split.
"Its not FOMO, its just needlessly grindy for no reason" isnt exactly the greatest clarification imo.
Actually curious: How do you define grind?
Champion Mastery is one of the systems I use a ton. I have 120 champs at lvl 7, and am working my way through the rest.
The Good:
Having more to pursue beyond rank 7 is interesting
Having the first milestone be more chests is always nice
I like the reward of "Your champs Title" be tied to performance as an unlock.
The Bad:
The time gating of both rewards and achievements seems awful. Mastery has always been permanent. Having them be tied to Split for the reward of a title is really annoying, and feels like a FOMO approach.
Mastery Sets, from description, reads like it'll be another monetization metric ala Eternals (which goes against how the mastery changes were worded in the announcement late last year). I like Mastery stuff because its free and accomplishment based. Having once a split reward tracks that get pushed seems dubious.
Marks of mastery seem very easy to earn compared to S ranks. If I want to hit 7 on a champ already at lvl 4, then I would simply need 1 S grade. Hitting lvl 10 would require 2. If you could get lvl 6 before, you now qualify for lvl 10 mastery.
The system seems like an earnest attempt to improve mastery, but also a lot of it feels intentionally grindy.
The reward of title is a great idea, but gating it behind splits and requiring you grind out every 3 months is bad.
The idea of recommending champs based on mastery is interesting, but feels like a push for grinding.
The way marks are being shifted from "get 5 S ranks" to "Play 5 games, get 2 S grades ever" feels like a very low barrier of entry.
The time gating of both rewards and achievements seems awful. Mastery has always been permanent. Having them be tied to Split for the reward of a title is really annoying, and feels like a FOMO approach.
Clarifying: There is a permanent and a split component.
Split component rewards the same things each split, which mostly are marks which upgrade your permanent mastery. The title is meant for folks who display strong dedication to a single champion.
We hope it doesn't inspire fomo because even if you miss on a split you will reliably be able to get those rewards next split.
Read moreI don't see the value of tying it to splits ... but sure hope i riot knows what they are doing and this doesn't screw my dream of max mastery on all champs.
You will still be able to reach level 10 on every champ given enough time and dedication!
I hope Ezreal still likes her.
EZREAL GOT A REAL REASON TO KISS THEM LEGGIES NOW GAMERS!
(This is not canon pls don't Shaco x Fiora me again)
Is that a real thing damn.
I DM'd you! (its a wall of text lol, but i wanted to provide as much information as I can to help you fix it)
We have identified the bug and are working on a fix.
From my QA lead:
"The way it works is the new members to the group don't get progress but the previous members do. So lets say the team is ABCDE and they get progress, if they then play with ABCDF twice then ABCD gets progress still but F does not for some reason."
Thanks for the reply. In another comment I stated that I can see this making sense for seeding players, but if it's always active, then I don't think it matters whether my LP or MMR is affected, MMR will indirectly affect my LP gains anyway.
If a significant portion of the server started playing more towards KDA and won more but the game became more boring, would that be acceptable? (Assume playing towards KDA means less bloodthirsty, generally)
Very interesting question, seeing it as a way to nudge people towards playing better LoL. Definitely have to think more about it, but my initial thoughts are:
If those less bloodthirsty players won more games on average than they did before, I guess that means that the average game quality is better (as in, they play closer to optimal League of Legends). If that leads to the game being more boring, the balance & design teams could incentivize more bloodthirsty games to make it more exciting again. Though I now wonder, would the function to evaluate gameplay be updated every patch? How long would it take for it to reflect balance changes that make the game more bloodthirsty / exciting?I think my main issue is just that the correct play might cause small penalties due to the model not learning every circumstance, so even if it's good for the majority, it would also hurt some players. I guess that raises another question: What accuracy would be acceptable in a system like this?
I don't have a real answer, definitely a tough problem to solve.
Balance and matchmaking are highly interrelated even if you only count W/L. Balance determines what is strong and MM is a result of people being able to identify and execute on what is strong.
Using specific stats sharpens this, not using stats makes it a more diffuse effect.
If in basketball the 3 point shot changed to 4 points and no one was allowed to change team comp I would expect the next season to look pretty different.
Thanks BarackpProbama,
I've delivered your update to the challenge community. They are rly excited you are looking into the BFF and Dream Team finally!
Happy holidays!
Howdy, we're looking into it now: May I have your region and Riot ID? Feel free to DM if that is easier :)
Hey, I have some questions regarding this, feel free to clarify if I'm wrong somewhere, I don't do this for a living:
Problem statement
Obviously, the goal of LoL is to win the game, and whether you achieved the goal is measured by exactly that: Win or defeat at the end of the game. Of course, different players will contribute different amounts to the outcome of a game: A 15/5 vayne likely contributed more to the win than the 0/13 warmogs rush yuumi top, or in case of a defeat, the 0/13 yuumi top likely contributed more to the loss than the 15/5 Vayne.It would be great to quantify everyone's skill level in a game based on their performance, so that better players gain more LP (and lose less LP), while worse players lose more LP (and gain less LP).
The problem is that there are many avenues to winning the game, and it's hard to figure out who contributed positively, who contributed negatively and by how much. An approach is to train a model on a huge set of games and try to more accurately judge how well players performed, and change their ratings based on that. Obviously, disclosing the factors and weights that play into this would be abused by players trying to game the system, so you wouldn't disclose that information.
Regardless, ANY metric other than the outcome of the game (win or defeat) is just that: a metric. Let's use KDA as an example. While a high KDA may pose a positive impact in many games, it is undeniable that dying may sometimes be the optimal play. Here's some questions I have:Questions
- Would Thebausffs reach the same rank while playing the same way he did when he reached challenger with his horrible KDA?
- If the answer is "his bad KDA is compensated by high CS and turret damage", what about more nuanced situations: Instead of farming a minion wave, I may have decided to stay close to a team mate and saved them from a gank. I lost out on 105 gold, but my team mate survived. Am I not punished with lower LP gains for making the correct decision?
- Someone mentioned a metric like "skillshot hit rate". What if I use a skillshot to zone the enemy away from a cannon minion? My hit rate would decrease, but it would also deny 90 gold from the enemy. Do I lose out on 0,X LP for that?
- Is the argument that such metrics would only influence a tiny amount of the LP gain (e.g., going from +25 to +24)? In that case, would it even matter if the difference is barely even noticeable for players?
- Are you guys not worried about players attempting to game the system, even without factors and weights being disclosed? Low elo players already play for KDA or vision score instead of winning the game. Players would feel incentivized to play for these metrics rather than to win the game.
- Are you not worried about toxicity? Kill stealing would be equal to "LP stealing", junglers would get flamed more for not ganking a lane (because help from the jungler equals bonus LP).
You are correctly identifying why this is a challenging space!
If we did anything here, the a likely route would be to look at millions of games of data and try to identify trends, then use those trends to inform things like seeding and calibration or MMR, not LP.
It would be highly unlikely unlikely that we would go "You have better KDA here's more LP", because an expected outcome of that is people playing towards KDA, which might warp the findings anyway. If a significant portion of the server played more conservatively to game LP and then lost more we aren't really doing our jobs very well.
To cook your noodle: If a significant portion of the server started playing more towards KDA and won more but the game became more boring, would that be acceptable? (Assume playing towards KDA means less bloodthirsty, generally)
Read moreNothing about TrueSkill2 implies that we must use or weight any additional factors outside of win or loss.
Oh thank god a voice of sanity, not that people will read your message they will just whine that the system favours ingame actions, which afaik, it does not currently do anyway
But then again after 13 seasons people still think losers queue is a thing so while i greatly appreciate your post, as do many others, i suspect many people will not read it >.<
Its a very confusing set of systems and acronyms, so it doesn't surprise me that people get confused! Happy to help in whatever way I can.
this thread and some twitter hysteria is based on this riot post
I read it as probably only looking to help with placing smurfs quicker primarily but can you confirm if any major changes like using KDA for LP are in any way planned
They are not in any way planned. Could still do them if we thought it made sense, but they aren't planned.
Definitions:
Elo - Chess rating system named after Arpad Elo
MMR - Match Making Rating, which is a number used to determine skill in League and matchmake you against other players
LoLMMR - Current Bayesian skill estimation system used by League of Legends. (Here's a fun paper for Trueskill 1 that describes the gist) Attempts to predict how good players are based on historical performance and give the matchmaker information to make good matches.
TrueSkill 2 - Skill estimation system containing improvements to accuracy over True Skill 1.
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Nothing about TrueSkill2 implies that we must use or weight any additional factors outside of win or loss. That said, we are always looking to improve our accuracy and if some factor or another was highly predictive we would experiment with it.
Read morehello barackprobama, i desperately need your help. I have basically completed all the challenges (Im currently #2 in the world for most challenge points), but there are a few that are bugged that I cannot progress. One of them is the Best Friend Forever challenge. For most people, this challenge is stuck and will not progress when they play with a new team of 5. Recently, people noticed they are able to progress the challenge again with a team so I started a new team to grind BFF, and it is progressing for everyone on the team except for me. Could your team please look into fixing it? The dream team challenge is also bugged too, probably same mechanism. i also think ill be able to provide valuable insight to help the team fix this stubborn bug
Appreciate you reaching out. This is something we can look into after winter break! No one is working right now though. Sorry that some of these are bugged.
Enjoy the holidays and thanks for playing!
This is my favorite type of reddit post keep up the very good work thank you.
Winning more than I lose