Runescape Dev Tracker

(2020) Tweeking the Tuturael -- the problems newcomers face with Turael's tutorial

This thread was added on May 31, 2020, with posts from Jagex_Stu.

Original Post

Please pardon the pun (you can thank me later if you steal it, Jagex) I recently had two friends who became interested in trying RuneScape again for the first time in years and the pathways system suggested that they talk to Turael in Burthope to learn the ropes. It goes without saying that it didn't quite go so smooth. In this thread I want to talk about problems that they had with the tutorial and what frustrated them.

--------------------

The tutorial forces open interfaces rather than teaching you how to access them.

Whenever something new was taught, such as how to place abilities on your bar, a common question when they wanted to access that menu again was "how do I find this again?" Rather than teaching the player how to find their abilities, the inventory, or their skill interface, it is opened for them, which is jarring to someone who hasn't played in a very long time. The tutorial should assume the player hasn't played before or hasn't played since the Evolution of Combat.

furthermore, they were frustrated by the fact that more tabs were being added to the same window when playing on non-legacy interfaces. So all these interfaces were getting shoved together and they weren't taught how to navigate between them, none the less how to make new windows. I feel teaching people more about the way the interface flows would be helpful in their navigation of the game, especially since one of the big perks of RS3 is how versitile UI customization is.

--------------------

The tutorial forces action bars onto the player in ways that are intrusive.

One of the biggest complaints from my friends were that whenever Turael told them to fight monsters, their main bar was overwritten without their permission. So when they had just learned how to add abilities to their bar, it didn't matter because their abilities were no longer exactly where they wanted it. It also forced a second action bar for no particular reason that included 3 extra abilities that just as easily could have been on their main bar. It also makes you place the "eat food" ability onto the second bar specifically. New players should only have to worry about one bar at a time or else it gets intimidating and cluttered.

This is especially made jarring by the fact that only Melee and Ranged does this. When you do your first slayer task with Ariane using magic, she asks you if you'd like your bar overwritten. Turael should do this as well. There is no reason that an existing bar should be overwritten without permission because it frustrates players who already figured out how to add abilities.

--------------------

The Ranged tutorial is shallow in comparison to Melee and Magic.

When it was time to try out ranged combat, it taught them how to do fletching, which is very good as it also teaches them how to do Smithing for melee armor and weapons. However, unlike melee, ranged does not give you the option to make anything other than a bow. It doesn't teach you to make armor despite smithing teaching you to make metal armor and magic teaching you to make robes. Instead Turael tells you to take off your metal armor and says "you're now geared for ranged!" which is absolutely untrue you're sending them in naked with no idea how to make armor for it.

On top of that, when you're sent to fight the cows, it is not specified that you have to kill them from outside the pen until you've already killed one outside the pen. Instead it puts the waypoint marker in a weird place without really telling you what do. So my friends assumed they have to go inside the pin to fight. Once they figured it out, I told them they should pick up the drops so that they have the means to make leather armor for ranging. However, this is not taught to them. This is a missed opportunity that could have taught them to make gear with drops from the target they had just slain.

--------------------

The tutorial shows how out of date the crafting system is.

One of my friends thought the idea of tanking as a non-melee class sounded really interesting and wanted to make a shield and crossbow for ranged. However, unlike Melee and Magic where a 1H + Shield is available right from level 1, ranged needs 9 fletching for the crossbow and 12 crafting for the shield. I couldn't suggest a shieldbow either because that requires 10 fletching. He was also confused because the leather gloves and vambraces have the same exact stats despite vambraces requiring a higher crafting level. It was frustrating to him because he didn't have the same level of freedom as the other two classes and some things you make with crafting are redundant.

Another frustration that came with this was that he could not check what materials he needed for making things with crafting in the skills menu. Some skills like Herblore are very good about this and let you click on the item to see what it requires to make the item. However, some skills like crafting, smithing, and fletching do not do this. To a veteran this seems like a non-issue, but to a new player it's frustrating because they cannot know what is required to make something unless they already have the material or the look it up on a wiki. The skills menu needs an overhaul just as much as the level scaling for various items.

--------------------

This is all based on the experience of people I helped guide through the game via screen share on discord, so I could have missed a thing or two, but I feel there are all things that really should be addressed. I want this game to be accessible to new players like it was in the old days and I know you're capable of it, especially with how you presented the tutorials on stream the past two weeks. The Durael tutorial should be just as accessible to players.

jorgelucasds

/u/Jagex_Stu

Worth a read.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. :)

I'd respond to each point in detail, but Californ1a has summarised the issues quite well. (Plus it's the weekend and I'm trying to not work on the weekends, as denying myself downtime has burned me out in the past.)

I would just like to clarify Californ1a's point, though, that the issue isn't Mobile, but that the New Interface System had a lot of other factors to consider (emphasising dynamic client-side customisation) so isn't designed with tutorialisation in mind - the old interface had static server-side buttons which made guiding you through them simple and feasible, but that's no longer an option. We force interface panels open because it's the only tool we now have in the box.

All the issues you've raised are things that bother me on a personal level, but are either deliberate design decisions out of my hands, or larger systemic issues outside of the scope of tutorialisation. (For example, the ability bar resets are because the freedom of customisation means it's very easy for new users to cripple themselves and not be able to continue, so a severe approach was taken to minimise churn.)

I'll continue to bear your points in mind, though, and so we what I can do in the future within my purview.

(Crafting ranged armour is available, for example, but as an optional path from picking up cow hide, so as to not overwhelm the player with mandatory paths, while the melee section is more rigid because it's teaching the fundamentals of combat. I think there's a core issue there in that Turael's paths are currently trying to satisfy all player types, and optionally accommodate those that may be less interested in certain types of content. Multiple parallel tutor paths with more of a distinct focus and less prerequisite chaining (separating combat and crafting modules for those who prefer one or the other) may be a better way to go.)

Incidentally, if I had the freedom to choose a project, I'd love to re-tier Woodcutting, Crafting and Fletching a la M&S. It irks me no end. (I had to fundamentally alter level 1 equipment crafting for a level 1 player to even be able to craft an equivalent ranged and magic armour set to bronze, and it shouldn't be necessary for tutorial projects to change core content that drastically.)

Kyrushi_

It makes me so happy that you actually read this Stu thank you so much! I love your stream presentations as well, by the way. I think you have a great mind to pick when it comes to tutorials so it made me wonder what went on with this. Thank you for going into a little detail about what's going on over on your side and I hope that our feedback is valuable.

Thank you very much!

I'm hoping to (eventually - we're on a long journey back to the present) critique Turael's paths in a future Stututorial. It's certainly far from what I'd consider perfect.

I'll bear your feedback in mind for that review. Thanks for sharing!

Kyrushi_

Since I have you here, i don't know if it's in your power or not, (or if you have the energy, i'm sorry that you're taking time out of your weekend!) but do you know why certain low level slayer tasks are so much harder now than they used to be?

I suggested my friends to do co-op slayer together to learn combat and they were greeted with a huge wall because Cave Crawlers, a very low level Slayer task, are now over level 50 when they used to only be 21. They retained their fast HP recovery as well, which makes the fight a test of stamina for low levels. Oddly enough, no other slayer creature has a similar level of challenge until Pyre Fiends 20 slayer level later, so it's kind of Jarring.

I looked in possible assignments and found some similar problems. I'm mostly sharing their combat level differences, but with the ones listed come problems like substantially more HP than other possible assignments or hitting harder than a good number of low level assignments

  • Flesh Crawlers went from 21 to 39
  • Kalphite Workers went from 28 to 58
  • Pyre Fiends went from 43 to 61
  • Rock Slugs went from 29 to 42
  • Dogs, while their weakest possible variant went down from level 61 to 39, are a high level to expect from someone using Turael since dogs don't have a slayer level requirement. They're currently the second most likely to be assigned to someone with only 15hp and strength according to the calculator.

This is a very bad impression for new players because they should be getting tasks appropriate to their combat level and some early tasks are simply too tough because of changes made by EoC. I think it would be worth looking into what the first few slayer masters can assign and make some lower level variants or tweeking how task weight works so that they can't be assigned until a higher combat level.

I'd really appreciate if you could forward this to someone who can look into this if you cannot. In the mean time i'm suggesting some other combat training methods to my friends so they can better handle tasks in the future, so don't worry these noobs are in good hands :)

Yeah, I can relate to that one. I tried to do some co-op Slayer with a friend who wanted to play RuneScape, and she was very frustrated that Turael assigned her ice fiends that were way above her combat level.

Mod Shogun did some investigation a little while ago into smoothing out low level Slayer assignments.

I've forwarded your feedback to him to see if he's taken your points into account.

KobraTheKing

Hey stu, a bit of a digression from tutorial to quest system since you worked on it and frankly I dont know what other media to contact through.

Im currently doing an ironman on strict timeline sorting to see if it is viable and for fun, and I spotted a big issue.

The Eyes of Glouphrie is placed earlier than The Grand Tree, even though it also require the Grand Tree. Could these two quests be switched in timeline?

I sent a bug report, but im not really sure if the report could adequately explain the issue. This is an issue for Nadir saga too, should be after ROTM based on suggested quests

Thanks, I've added a note about Eyes of Glouphrie to the Timeline feedback you previously sent about Nadir, Desert Treasure, Hopespear's Will, etc. I haven't yet had a chance to look at that due to sprint commitments. I'd also like to alphabetise the list of quest sorts if I get a chance - that new Alphabetical at the bottom is triggering me a bit.