VMan7070

How so? I've always found it very tricky to get the execute late game when my team wave clear so rapidly. Felt like gold left on the table which isn't there as an issue on pbe.

You don't think that shouldn't be a drawback on the item?

For a balance team that decided "fuck the individual player, the game is 95% teamplay now" you'd think that having to depend on your team not to kill every single minion before your autoswing timer goes off is an intended thing.

No, that just sounds awful. It means every role around you needs to understand the intricacies of Support items on top of millions of other things to not Rob you of gold and thus make you sad.

It's like back when the correct play against Illaoi tentacles was for allies to NOT kill them. That was also creating bad feels within your team due to unintended nonsense rules.

akuakud

Go further than reverting its health. Dragon needs a health increase. Why can objectives like Dragon and Baron be soloed at all?

Well that entirely depends on champion. Evelynn's not soloing dragon at level 5, but Udyr and Warwick probably are. No amount of HP is going to stop that, since it's their ability to keep themselves healthy that enables this behavior.

And before you suggest "Just increase it's damage, then", we don't want to make dragon takes riskier for groups of champs, else no one will want to risk taking early dragons for fear of being wiped.

xBirde

Tier 3 relic shield feels awful without relic stacks

How so? I've always found it very tricky to get the execute late game when my team wave clear so rapidly. Felt like gold left on the table which isn't there as an issue on pbe.

Good feedback. Thank you for your thoughts.

Rin_Hoshizura

This is ominous.

Oh, no, I'm not involved with our awesome lore/narrative team. I just love it when people discuss theories!

I love this post and reading all the comments.

GhostToGotham

If I have one suggestion, people (myself included) seem to be unclear if the set bonus for the Lethality items will stack at 2 items (is it 10 CDR and 15 lethality each or in total?) Which is it meant to be? I was under the impression of it being that if you build 2 lethality items you get an additional 10 CDR and 15 lethality total, not each.

Correct, it's total. It's just like an item set bonus in WoW or Diablo.

GhostToGotham

If I have one suggestion, people (myself included) seem to be unclear if the set bonus for the Lethality items will stack at 2 items (is it 10 CDR and 15 lethality each or in total?) Which is it meant to be? I was under the impression of it being that if you build 2 lethality items you get an additional 10 CDR and 15 lethality total, not each.

Correct, it's total. It's just like an item set bonus in WoW or Diablo.

randomdragon789

The execute threshold better be low like 2-5% or something. If it's too high this shit gonna be crazy

You want there to be a 2% execute threshold?

Probably worth mentioning that ALL of these tooltips are still WIP and are subject to change in the weeks ahead. Try not to get too attached to them in their current state/strength!

TropoMJ

The ocean dragon looks terribly weak with such tame health regen and no more mana regeneration. It has virtually no offensive use and is also worse defensively than mountain unless you're just against poke comps. I understand that mana sustain is high in the game but that could be addressed by nerfing Luden's or actually making mana costs matter again, not by making a dragon buff massively unsatisfying.

Don't forget, this regeneration is constant, not just out of combat. In addition, it's possible have 4 of them at once, too.

bigfish1992

It will be a dodgeable execute, so things like Zhonyas, Flash, Fizz E, Kindred ult etc. would be able to negate it.

Right now the current Elder drake is probably actually stronger than this proposed version, as this one only comes with the execute and not the dragon stacking.

I wanna wait until we see the actual numbers, but I am thinking it will be like 10-15% which I think is reasonable as it is a big objective and it gives the team that gets it a big advantage that you need to be aware of when fighting and a chance for teams who are behind (who maybe didn't get dragons earlier) a chance to get back into the game.

Not flash! Don't waste your flash!

NerrionEU

He also gets fucked over by Infernal, so feels like Rengar will turn into the biggest coinflip champ.

Just want to drop in and say that some brush is larger (plus some new ones in the dragon pit) during ocean games, and 1 brush is missing per jungle quadrant in infernal games. I don't think that makes Rengar any more of a coinflip champ than he already is!

nysra

We are willing to test stuff but only as long as you guys are willing to remove bullshit features if they turn out bullshit instead of forcing them upon us just for change's sake. And well, Riot has implemented a lot of really bad ideas over the years and let them stay for some reason, so excuse me but I don't really have much reason to be optimistic here. Still going to try it, but I can already see what is going to happen.

I don't know dude, we've certainly removed a lot of things that didn't work, too! It's not like we keep stuff in the game that people hate just to upset them.

IceCubesBurning

They do that every season, they're doing it again this year too. That's not really a massive change.

Season 9 was the smallest pre-season ever, they changed Turret plating and.. what else? We've had regular patches bigger than that years pre-season.

Season 8 was big with Runes Reforged, but this one is by the biggest Pre-Season ever.

We had changed to bounties and some reworked Runes too.

Sensualgandhi

Why are they changing so much? I can't be the only one who thinks the game is great the way it is.

The game is "the way it is" thanks to all the previous changes we've made. It's the beauty of having a constantly updating and changing game: we try to keep it feeling fresh forever.

anialater45

Seems like it will be very aggravating to play against. Executes in general are, so this seems to just make it worse.

As with the game as it exists on the current patch, you shouldn't be fighting someone with elder buff unless it's a pick or unfair fight in your favour. The new buff should solidify this as correct thinking!

anialater45

Okay but like, whats the counterplay? What can you do beside just hope they screw up? Or are you just screwed because they have an instant kill ability.

Well firstly, they need to get you to a low health state to execute you. If you're a 10/0 Garen then that's still going to be challenging. Secondly, they can't execute you if they're CC'd or dead, so picks are valuable.

Finally, you can always hourglass and hope your team has your back before the enemy can reapply the burn?

Ultimately, you probably shouldn't be fighting them right now and instead be focusing on minimising your structure losses as much as you can whilst waiting out the buff.

Angus18

With the current elder buff you have more stats and the burn that increases your damage directly so you would be already dead on top of the enemy getting things like regen/ms/damage against objectives. They said they are removing the burn and the extra stats so it is pretty much the same thing in combat but worse and it is actually easier to balance because you can just increase or decrease the execute %.

I just wanted to drop in and say the fact you GET this makes me so relieved!

We've swapped what is a tremendous amount of fairly hidden power for what we hope is a similar amount in an incredibly understandable, knowable and satisfying way.

Elder dragons are still rare in League, so you won't be popping heads (or getting popped!) in every game, but when it happens I hope it's a satisfying way to wrap up that game.

gregstiemsma

Drakes changing the Rift seems kinda bullshit but I'm willing to give it a chance

I actually love this post! The very healthiest mix of scepticism plus willingness to be impressed!