How do you feel about Making you being able to Cast Q2 while CCed? This has been requested for a while and I don't think it would remove counterplay like making R uncancelable.
I tested this in the first iteration of the changes (because responsiveness up was a core value). Playtest team felt it was pretty notably counterplay down and it generally felt cheap when she was able to pretty reliably CC you while she was CC'd, so I pulled the change.
Just out of curiosity, not wanting to be a bother, but I’ll admit this isn’t at all the direction I expected buffs to go in. How do you and riot in general feel about her health and squishness, since that was another large reason she built ROA? I almost expected the buffs to just be on the lines of the kassadin health per level buffs (although these are VERY nice, just not what I expected)
So, I definitely sympathize with the health decrease. Ultimately I looked at it as: I have X amount of power to work with to make Anivia feel like a functional modern champion. Where do I put it?
If I had extra room left-over, or if she's still too weak after these buffs, I very well might consider some sort of base health or health per level, but it just didn't make the cut over any of the changes I thought were most important (and I had to decrease R damage somewhat to even make room for what's here).
Oh, I missed a line in the text version of the list. I can't check the exact numbers atm, but ult cost is also down a bit as well. It'll show up on PBE shortly, though.
Main focus is to make Anivia feel better to play in modern League without much change to her core identity or skill-tests. This is meant to be a large buff, because Anivia was hit by a large systemic nerf in 10.23. Also, the reason we didn't hotfix Anivia is because I already happened to be partway through an Anivia modernization pass when she dropped precipitously in the preseason patch, so I wanted to use that extra room to find more buffs with long-term value for the champion instead of hotfixing in generic power.
For those concerned that this is too large of a buff—if it's too much, we'll nerf her. I think a lot of these changes will make the character feel better to play without significantly eroding counterplay, though, which is the important part that will stick around when she's balanced.
Read moreThis is fixed for live, along with Umbral and Youmuu's
You’re very welcome. And I like this game too. Thanks for keeping it positive in game :)
Tbh it is pretty daunting. I had no idea how complex and how many layers there are to this game. Everyday I seem to learn more and more but there’s still so much info and I feel like I’m still such long ways away from being able to join in real games and actually not hurt the team. However, I will say that in this situation, my ignorance has been my ally bc I had no idea what I was getting myself into but hey, here I am and i have to admit - it is pretty fun! Sometimes, when I reach a personal best, I’ll take a pic of the end game results and send it to him and when he gets excited for me and says “GJ Mom!” It’s such a great feeling. When he plays, he laughs and jokes and screams and makes all these funny noises and I can’t wait to be a part of that joy. Thanks for the well wishes, I’m grateful for all the advice and would be happy to post updates :)
This is so great to read. League can be incredibly complicated, but it sounds like you're both finding your joy in it already! One thing I found helped some of my less experienced friends face the challenge was understanding that it's not just you—the game is designed to be hard enough that even very high level players can have pretty big gaps in their knowledge and skill. You don't need to know everything or be able to do everything to move on up to a harder difficulty or higher skill level, and everyone's struggling with at least some aspect of their play right alongside you.
Maybe more practically, I think making little plans and predicting what will happen can help a lot in the early days (and honestly, much past the early days as well). Like, "I think if I use all of my spells on that Lux right now, she will die," and if it works then you've gained the knowledge that you can kill her in that situation in the future. If it doesn't, you know she wasn't low enough health.
Anyway, ...
Read moreDone. Good luck with the project!
Thanks for the thoughts behind the changes! Super interesting to read. Eclipse is basically half of what it launched on PBE with, but glad to see things moving towards a reasonable state.
No problem! Eclipse was one of the final mythic items so it was coming in pretty hot with mechanical changes right before it hit PBE. The fact that it was in a heavily bugged state (that had variable output, at that—the bug meant that sometimes it did a lot more damage than it should and sometimes did much less) for a bit immediately after its last set of pre-PBE changes did not help power reads at all, either for us balancing it or for the player community trying to understand it. Like, one of the reasons it ended up that powerful is that this bug led us to believe, from playtests, that it was somehow weak despite its reasonable numbers on-paper, and so we buffed it pretty dramatically. I think it's much closer now, and we'll keep following up as necessary.
Possibly of note—Eclipse is meant to be an item that some fighters can buy. I see many players stating that it must be broken because e.g. Riven likes the item, but that's not a good litmus test because it's intended! Not to say ...
Read moreI really appreciate that you take the concerns here seriously, although OP and others including me are mostly ranting. I find your explanation on Duskblade really interesting. I assume the goal is to make assassins more useful in teamfights to give them a way to escape? I would really love to hear more about the goal/intention of some specific item additions. Will there be a post at some point about that?
Not sure if we plan to follow up with some dev articles, but I know I'd be happy to write about some of the more interesting items if we do. In the case of the assassin mythics, the goal was to give them some items that aligned themselves strongly with an assassin's wants and the different sorts of games an assassin might find themselves in. Duskblade is meant a really good item in a game where there are several squishies, making the first kill of a fight much easier to get. Prowler's Claw is meant to be powerful if you estimate getting one incredibly strong burst is your best avenue to victory (for instance, if they have a single champion who is the lynchpin of their comp, and applying very heavy burst threat with greater target access allows you to kill them or pressure them out of fights). Eclipse is meant to offer an opt-out for when you evaluate early on that you win condition is to generally avoid teamfights and aim for the splitpush or take smaller skirmishes—this is why it's t...
Read moreNice! I see you pretty frequently in threads, and I appreciate how you guys are super responsive about these PBE changes.
BTW, are you able to share the process for evaluating preseason items ATM? I know that the PBE isn't the most "controlled" environment for testing purposes, so I'm really curious to know how you guys are going about it. Is there some valid PBE data that you can use to set performance goals? Maybe internal playtesters collectively make judgements on item strengths? Numbers-crunching for specific breakpoints? A mix of the above, or something entirely different?
Thanks in advance! If you can't answer for whatever reason, it could make for a good "gameplay thoughts" post topic.
Both internal playtesting and number-crunching contribute a lot. We also listen to what players have concerns about, from plenty of channels including Reddit—but we don't just react blindly to player feedback, because while it can alert us to some valid problems it can also be pretty far off sometimes. We heard the issues raised around total percent penetration values, for instance, and took a second look, agreed, then iterated. Thanks for taking an interest!
Pretty sure its a bug, invisibility should end when hitting a champ.
This is correct.
Ow you are the guy that reworked shaco and listened to the shaco players with all the changes. Bro I love you, thanks for being so awesome
Thank you! I appreciate it.
Are there any riot employees that comment/look on r/LeaguePBE ? Or do they not have flairs?
I know people are supposed to talk on the pbe subreddit but I only ever see riot replies on the main.
Thank you for looking at all! I’m just curious
Edit:also what’s the difference between r/LeaguePBE and r/PBE
Yes. We're picking up lots of bugs from r/LeaguePBE, and we have folks specifically looking there to gather feedback and disseminate it to the team. You'll just see responses here sometimes because this is a sub a lot of us are used to browsing when e.g. our game is building or what-have-you, and if we can hop in and provide an answer we'll do it.
oh my, you are alive
Thank you for fixing shaco, much love peepoWideHappy
Thank you! I am alive, just buried in preseasons :)
This happened during a tuning pass and will be fixed, along with other items that have this issue!
You really have no idea who August is do you? He’s by far the most acclaimed designer, creating unique actionable ideas without the certainlyT touch of unbalancable, and by far the best champ designer at riot, jinx gnar jhin and many others are examples of top tier design and fantasy fulfillment beyond their years while maintaining peak balance.
EDIT: Thanks for Silver lol
You really have no idea who August is do you? He’s by far the most acclaimed designer, creating unique actionable ideas without the certainlyT touch of unbalancable, and by far the best champ designer at riot, jinx gnar jhin and many others are examples of top tier design and fantasy fulfillment beyond their years while maintaining peak balance.
Is Eclipse already on your guys' radar for a nerf? It feels like buying anything else on assassins is just trolling because of how strong it is
Yep
I agree with the fact that crit can't go past 100% and it makes sense, it should be fixed for anyone that breaks that. However, the problem mentioned happens without breaking the cap at all. What was called a bug originally was the "Yasuo/Yone can build a single crit item and because of their passive actually giving them 50% crit, then Rageblade was giving on-hit damage accordingly". That happens without breaking the cap, and without any other mention that "Yasuo/Yone/(Trynda?) shouldn't get free on-hit from rageblade as well". I would suggest Rageblade tip stated that the on-hit was based on crit chance from items, because if it doesn't, there's no reason it shouldn't work like it's working now (Of course that breaks when champs get past 100% crit, which like you said and I guess the rioter meant, is indeed a bug)
I guess you are gonna not see my response again, but you responded to the original comment which said that Yasuo and Yone were getting free on-hit because of their passive and called it a bug. I understand the breaking 100% crit is a bug, like I said in what I'm quoting. But Yasuo and Yone benefitting from a single Rageblade like having 50% chance instead of the 20% from the item is how the wording is supposed to be intended, and you called it a bug. Again, I totally understand nerfing it because it makes no sense, but it isn't a bug, and the item should be adressed to note that it doesn't include crit from champs (Like my own quotation, I assume Trynda is having that "bug" as well)
Pardon me if I misunderstand. Yasuo and Yone are breaking the 100% crit cap, which is impossible for other champions not named Tryndamere (who is also implicated here). Crit from champions is intentionally included in Rageblade's calculation, just not above 100%. This could change, pending balance, but would be tooltipped accurately if so (like, "Critical Strike Chance from items").
I think the bug was that crit chance wasn't capping at 100%, so the on-hit damage was able to go beyond 200.
Bingo. Critical strike chance is implicitly capped at 100%. This is not Yasuo/Yone- or Guinsoo's-specific.
Thank you for the clarification and that makes perfect sense. What other metrics do you use to balance from the PBE in the context of items?
Item power can be a bit tricky, data-wise, even without the critically low quality of PBE games confounding things. In this case, we're focusing first on clear outliers: the sort that can be identified without objective. Like, if you see a scenario in-game occur that is breaking down gameplay or clearly invalidating core League skill-tests, that's on the table for either tuning or mechanics work, whatever will resolve the issue. Or, if an item or build path or class isn't living up to its fantasy, that's also something we look for opportunities to resolve. In terms of things we can't get internally and need the PBE for, this is an opportunity for us to gather feedback from the community, including players who are just reading the items or are trying them themselves on the PBE, more than it is to gather objective gameplay data from PBE games.
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