Nadirin

Wait, so they lowered the XP drops per floor? What? Am I missing something here?

This should only really have an impact on players doing floors 4 and 5 however floor 3 was still slightly overtuned.

Overall it's around a 7% xp/hr nerf at the top end and only around 3% xp at the lower end.

Bare in mind we made a host of other changes to the content which should also have an impact on making some things slightly easier to compensate.

Remember this is just week 1 feedback. I'll continue to keep an eye on the content over the coming weeks and continue to make changes until I feel like it's in the right place

ASuricate

I like most of the sepulchre changes, but I'm Not sure about this one: You will now receive slightly more Hallowed Marks on Floors 1, 2, and 3, but slightly fewer on Floors 4 and 5 and from the Grand Coffin.

The first part is fine for me, so it becomes more attractive to lower leveled agility players, but why punish the people going for full runs? You basically only loot 5 and maybe 4 on full runs.. seems a bit harsh as it takes already quite long to just obtain some recolours.

Also what I kind of miss is a buff to some of the tools - I think the grapple should guarantee you not to fail to be worth it, otherwise I don't see it to be worth the investment.

Emphasis on the word slightly

We made it so you can loot 3 chests on floor 5 and I basically doubled the marks from the grand coffin all on the first day. Now we're giving another chest on floor 4 the content is already higher marks/hr than I originally balanced.

In reality it's gone from 3-8 on floor 5 (average of 5.5 marks) to 4-6 (average of 5) and 8-11 from grand chest down to 8-10. These are very small changes. All in all it's around 2 less marks per run than you were seeing previously (5-8 runs/hr depending on skill makes that 10-16 less per hour) but instead you now have another chest you can loot which yields on average 4.5 marks/run so it should still be more marks/hr than before if you're full looting.

For full disclosure here are what the marks have changed to:

Floor 2 : From 1-3 (2 average) to 2-3 (2.5 average)

Floor 3 : From 2-4 (3 average) to 3-5 (4 average)

Floor 4 : From 3-7 (5 average) to 3-6 (4.5 average)

Floor 5 : From 3-8 (5.5 average) to 4-6 (5 average)

Grand Coffin : From 8-11 (9.5 average) to 8-10 (9 average)

TehStuzz

Kinda dissapointed they nerfed the xp rates for Sepulchre. I was training agility to 82 so I could do the fourth floor, and the best way to do so was already rooftops...

The xp-rates are still much higher than rooftops, if you do the maths what you were previously getting has only been nerfed by around 5% which isn't a lot of xp/hr.

We'll continue to monitor the content and make further adjustments as we see fit.

Little_Red_Demonhood

I don't understand why you've reduced the number of marks given to specifically inconvenience players doing the much higher skill requirement content.

Comment about how slightly it is here https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/h7h7sc/darkmeyer_improvements/fukyeuh/

ASuricate

Hey Husky,

Thanks for the reply here - and the elaboration how much slightly really is. Also I do not see myself looting 3 coffins on 5 consistently (obviously there are players that are really good at this, Just my point from an average skilled player). And in the end its still a lot of hours for a petrecolor as others have already pointed out (compared to Phoenix, tangleroot, etc. - Ive only accumulated like 1.6k in 70 full runs) Any plans on the tools? Grapple and enchantment one seem to be quite useless in my eyes right now (grapple as explained above and if you use the highest enchant it almost never fails anyway) Loving the content and appreciate the responsiveness from you, so dont take the critique as harsh as it might have come across :)

The purpose of the recolour that I wanted a reward which people could work towards if they enjoyed the content and would cost a lot of marks for them to work towards, since it was optional a pet recolour really did fit the bill. I don't have any plans to reduce the price on it but the marks/hr should still be slightly increased from this update since looting 2 chests on floor 4 is much more reasonable.

As for the tools, i agree they are a bit underwhelming but I'm not sure if I want to make not using them worse? Will consider it, had a lot of changes I wanted to prioritise this week :)

No problem! I'm glad you're enjoying it and I never take critique harshly as long as people aren't just being rude for the sake of being rude haha

wheresmyspacebar2

s were getting 95-100k+ xp/hr with agi 92+ which is way more than originally polled, so it makes sense it got n

'players'?

I only saw one person this week that got 98k an hour, for only an hour, skipping all loot. Pretty much 100% concentration for an hour.

Because of that one person doing it for one hour, people (Max community FTW) screamed on twitter that it was too OP.

MOST people, were hitting 75k at F5 over a few hours.

Nerfing it is just dumb AF. Requiring max concentration and near tick perfect accuracy for a 25k increase in XP to the highest available xp (Which is AFK enough you can Fletch/Hi Alch at the same time) is just stupid.

People need to get over the fact that higher level content SHOULD have higher XP rates than before. Making a 92 required Agility course which requires a good amount of skill and concentration and now nerfing it so its similar xp to a lvl75 rooftop course which you barely have to pay attention to is just dumb.

"Most players getting 75k xp/hr". Are you talking about looting chests or just running straight for XP?

From what I can tell if you were getting 75k xp/hr before you'd now be getting 69.5k which is still better than rooftops.

At the very least I know people were consistently able to pull off 75k xp/hr at least while looting all 3 chests and that felt like just a bit too much from my experience.

hbnsckl

Why are the new arrows so high in the air? Makes them so much more difficult to see with a lowered camera, like when you're scouting out the statues.

They should be the exact same height as the old ones, so no changes. They're also the same height the statue fired them from

Message_Me_Selfies

But why nerf floors 1-3 at all?

At level 72 Agility (and all the way to 81) you are getting less xp than you would be at seers course, and it takes way more effort. Also its locked behind a hard quest.

The rewards are not anywhere near good enough to make up for that. Currently its not even semi-viable compared to rooftops until 82 agility, and doesn't actually become good until 92.

Before the update you should were actually pretty consistently able to beat the rates of Ardougne if you didn't loot. I first and foremost wanted to reduce that and it's only bout about 5%

If it's too weak with loot I may what I could do to lower the gap between the two but I did also make a lot of changes to traps specifically the final bolt trap on floor 3 which should make you fail less often!

superfire444

Before todays update you'd get 500+900+1600+3000+6500 = 12500 xp per lap. Lets say you do 10 minute laps so 6x12500= 75000k xp/h

After todays update you get 500+850+1500+2700+6000 = 11550 xp per lap so 6x11550=69300 xp/h.

In 10 minutes you could still loot all of floor 4 and 5. It's still the best xp/h for agility by a mile. If you'd go for xp only - only looting the grand chest (8min laps) you'd get 7,5x11550 = 86625 xp/h.

How is that bad?

And before you come at me saying "yea but this is 92+"

If you do the first 3 floors only - assuming 40s floor 1 + 50s floor 2 + 90s floor 3 (all 3 are quite slow) you'd get 500+850+1500 = 2850 xp per 3mins -> 20x2850 = 57000 xp/h. Not bad for level 72 agility. Do note that this is slow and you can probably achieve 60k xp/h+

Your math is slightly off because most floors grant agility xp for jumping the final platform and for hopping down the stairs (around 75 xp per floor)

Gamesst

For extremely high effort pre-92 the average player can get maybe 2K more xp/hr than rooftops and less xp than werewolf.. not exactly enticing. I guess for the 3% of people doing near-perfect play it will be a decent improvement.

Are you quoting those rates while also looting the coffins? Because then you're probably also making more money than rooftops while still getting 2k more xp/hr.

If you ignored the coffins you'd be able to get significantly more than rooftops

Wolfie_Ecstasy

That feeling when you spent hours mastering the first 4 levels and were gonna wait until the xp buffs before coming back to it to max agility.

Crazy that this would be nerfed considering how insanely intensive it is. I actually enjoyed it but it wasn't worth all the effort for slightly boosted xp rates.

More dead content I guess. Suppose I'll be doing rooftops to 99.

If you've mastered the first 4 levels you should be able to get quite a bit more xp/hr than rooftops if you are not looting coffins.

Looting coffins then it should balance out but that's kind of the point of the content, you can sacrifice Xp/Hr for loot

Message_Me_Selfies

Thanks for replying.

Before the update you should were actually pretty consistently able to beat the rates of Ardougne if you didn't loot.

Is that only with 92+ agility though?

Because at 77 agility I'm feeling like I'm choosing between fun at Sepulchre and better xp rates for less effort on rooftops.

Even with no looting, I'm getting like a 5% increase in xp rates for way way higher effort and missing out on marks of grace. And that was pre-nerf. I might as well just do rooftop + alch or fletch for less effort.

I feel like shuffling some of the xp from floor 5 down to the earlier floors would be warranted.

I love the content, I'd love it even more if I felt like I was using my time well there.

At 72 you could get rates higher than Ardy without looting which just felt really off

BoulderFalcon

Hey Husky, just my opinion but I think you guys should really reconsider the xp nerfs. This content is much, much more engaging and punishing than rooftops. Why not reward that effort and focus? Really sad to see this nerf when I had been enjoying this content so much. Sepulchre needs to be as good as it was in order to make it worth the effort over rooftops.

We absolutely are still rewarding the effort and focus, just less so than before. You should be able to get higher xp rates than the equivalent rooftops at all levels once you've learned the floors.

Ender593

What's wrong with a heavily skill intensive and click intensive method at 92 agility beating a zero skill and low click method at 92 in terms of xp?

It's a great piece of content, I would rather a xp nerf come in the form of incentivizing looting so you have that choice and maybe the happy medium between loot and xp is lower xp than ardy, but you could choose to beat ardy if you wanted to get less loot.

Edit: ah, I think I misinterpreted the xp rates people are getting and the impact of the nerf.

I'm confused, it still does significantly beat out Ardougne in terms of XP, the gods will get 92-93k xp/hr. People who make some mistakes are still going to get ~80k xp/hr and people learning should still get ~70k xp/hr while not looting

Churus

I hate that reasoning. The majority are only at the sepulcher for hallowed marks. At least make the xp while gathering marks (you gather marks at seers, no?) comparable to methods from the same level.

If you're at sepulcher for xp and not loot then to be fair you deserve to make at least 5% over comparable, highly uninvolved training methods. To try and balance xp without loot is asking for dead content.

I can get marks, but is it worth the inefficiency over much less intensive methods? I can skip the marks, but is it worth all the extra effort when less intense alternatives are just as efficient?

Answer to both is no.

You currently can get more than 5% over comparable methods while looting but "looting" isn't exactly consistently measureable.

Are you on floor 4 looting floors 2,3 and 4, what about only 3 and 4, or only 4? They all have vastly different xp-rates so which one should award more xp than rooftops, all of them? Personally I feel like if you're looting 3 and 4 then it should be higher, if you're looting 2 then no.

Then you've got to factor in someone being good at the traps and not being good at the traps, the XP that someone gets varies so much with this minigame

OSRS-Jared

I wish you guys would grow a backbone and stop bending over backwards for the Twitter creatures in the max/high-level community. You personally know that this nerf is unwarranted, and you need to recognize that the max community is severely damaging the game with their whining.

I think your comment is honestly quite rude and unfounded. I have been personally playing and testing this content post-release in my personal time to make sure of any and all decisions I have made.

I take all criticism onboard whether that be from a maxed player, a casual player, someone on reddit or someone on twitter and try to look at them objectively.

B1GTRUCK

Is it possible to make the arrow statue animations more distinguishable? Maybe add a shadow or change the color before the animation happens? I use fixed mode on the original client and they’re really difficult to see.

I've seen that feedback before and I do agree that doing something like that would probably be a good idea to help fixed mode. Do you think something like a sparkle at the end of the crossbow or something would be enough?

pokegoing

I think the reason everyone is so upset about the nerf or the slow xp compared to rooftops is because they love the concept SO much. Currently I'm stuck at the boss of Sins of the Father but can't wait to get to darkmeyer to do the sepulchre. Agility has always been one of my favourite skills on concept (rooftops becomes soul draining tho) and was excited about the sepulchre since you showed it on live stream. Now that it seems sub optimal I cannot see myself using it much in the long run. What's your thoughts on the comparisons people make between AFK content and intensive content? Skill based content should be heavily rewarded. Not everyone can boss, not everyone can raid, not everyone can perfect the sepulchre. Reward them with loot and XP not marginally but heavily. I love the skill ceiling in OSRS, give players a reason to pursue that, and have less XP when afking.

I think that's fair, we definitely will be reviewing this on a week to week basis until we feel like it's in a good spot.

I would recommend trying it for yourself though to see what XP-rates you get for yourself though! It's very skill dependent