ThisIsSnake

Hey /u/Auberaun sorry 4 ping but I don't know Riru's reddit handle, i think you guys missed abyssal mask and catalyst which were also buffed this patch AFAIK

Hey there, this one was called out under "Passive - Eternity" as a note since the buff only applied to the passive shared between all items. But looking at it again I can understand the confusion that I caused here and i'll make it more clear in future notes going forward

Hey everyone, we're pushing out an update for the patch notes now including the removal of the Lunar Gods skins and Porcelain Prestige Lissandra from the notes as they will be coming out in patch 13.2 instead. I apologize for the confusion created here.

Also making a correction to Shaco's W ability name.

JungleEnjoyer

Really, we just want to see more of the clown in the game.

Still not going to show up in any of my games.

Oh come on! There are much more ban-worthy champs these days! (I'm a Shaco one-trick.)

Tchaikmate

The only reason I ever keep Shaco as a perma ban is due to his boxes. Can I ask your thoughts on that, because don't his boxes go directly against Riot's gameplay philosophy of counterplay?

I don't mind playing against a Shaco: I mind playing against his boxes. The fact that his boxes contain 3 aspects that disregard any counterplay for melee users (invisibility, damage, cc) is undeniably and objectively frustrating to play against, yes? Melee users literally can't walk up to his boxes, even knowing where they are, without taking damage and cc. I can't play the game against any decent shaco player, with any decent cdr, who knows how to play around his boxes...literally.

I've had games where my team actually couldn't touch Shaco, like it was urf, because his boxes 100% prevented our constant movement and reliable tracking of him, while also taking damage while he remains untouched and not interacting with us at all. We literally could not play the game. That drains all of my enjoyment out of the game, when I can't even play or interact with another champ (hence why Yuumi is also frustrating).

And I get that's part of what makes playing Shaco fun, is deceiving people. But LB or neeko can never do this as reliably in SR as well as Shaco can, simply due to his boxes.

I realized this year, along with the Yuumi problems, that I don't want Shaco deleted from the game (like I used to), I just want his boxes addressed to match every other champs ability to be countered, which the boxes can't be (100% of the time). I also don't mind that "running away" is counterplay, but when it's the box's only form of counterplay, I think it's a major problem.

I can't think of a single other ability in the game as game-breaking as Shaco boxes. Lulu polymorph? Strong, but I don't take damage. Ivern bushes? Yes I'd have to face check as a melee user, but they don't inherently cc or damage me. Many MANY abilities have damage and cc, but aren't invisible (Amumu R, Kennen R, Sion R, etc). Teemo shrooms can be attacked without harm by anyone if swept. Hell, even Yuumi's untargetability doesn't inherently damage or cc me.

And now, almost all invis mechanics in the game now have a reliable way to counter, especially for champs. So why aren't Shaco boxes disabled completely if I sweep them? Why do they have 2 seconds of cc during which they take half my squishy health late game if I can't see it and run into it? Why is there essentially no reliable form of counterplay? (I'm also not counting cleanse or qss as counterplay, as that usage ratio difference is massive, and is also an incredible waste of an item/summ spell against one ability with a cd of 15 seconds).

Apologies for the rant, but this subject can very much get on my nerves.

Sorry, I can't really respond with a design take. I'm just a Shaco enjoyer who works on VALORANT!

Tchaikmate

Oh, lol, no worries.

Out of curiosity (seeing as you're a Shaco enthusiast), since he's a fairly old champ who needs a visual update at the very least, I'm always interested in player mains' takes on champ changes.

Disregarding the whole box issue, just kit/mechanics/playstyle loop, if Riot ever decides to change part or all of his kit, is there anything you'd like to see changed for the better, in your eyes? Is there anything on him that currently bugs you right now you'd wish they'd change or fix?

Thanks for your time! GL on the rift!

Overall, I love the playstyle Shaco offers, especially as AP. No other champion plays quite like him.

I love how versatile his boxes and clone are — tanking, dodging, scouting, zoning, bamboozling, and more. His clone has this rare quality that I call an "induced silence" — the enemy is free to use their damaging abilities, but they will be punished if they do, so they are often effectively forced to silence themselves. He has so many ways to prevent an ability from landing, like dropping a box, dodging with R, positioning the clone, or buffering a Q (for tanking a hook).

Watching him use all of these toys and tricks is entertaining, and the enemy gets to participate in his comedic performance. Because of that, I actually think he fulfills the demon jester fantasy pretty well. No matter whether I'm doing well or poorly, I'll always be having a great time making funny plays — and probably laughing maniacally IRL.

Now, in my personal opinion, these are a couple of things I don't like about his current kit.

Let's start with his ult:

• On some skins and chromas, it can be hard for your team to tell you and the clone apart.
• There's a visual indicator at the base of the clone that indicates how long it will last, but I'd like there to be an audio cue, as well.
• The explosion damage radius is smaller than the fear radius and the clone's auto range. If you simply command the clone to chase a target, the clone will stop moving between attacks, giving the target some space — usually enough to avoid the explosion damage (but at least the target will probably get feared). You have to manually control the clone to hug the target to have a better chance of dealing explosion damage.
• When you die, you cannot issue more commands to the clone, so it will just continue to chase the nearest target. If the target breaks vision, it just goes to your corpse instead of continuing to move in the same direction. (In fact, this also reveals to the enemy that you don't have vision of the area.)
• When you tell the clone to stay in a specific position, it will eventually time out and just start going toward what you're attacking instead. You can't position the clone somewhere and have it stay there (unless you keep issuing commands for it to stay), which can make it harder to execute a clone-leash.
• Shaco uses a different walking animation while stealthed, but there's a bug where if you press R while stealthed, the clone will continue to use that animation, and therefore revealing that it's the clone.

I wouldn't mind a new passive tbh:

• Jungling optimally requires a lot more micro than most other junglers because you have to move between each auto, making it hard to keep track of the map.
• It also just doesn't feel particularly satisfying to use.

And finally, a couple things about boxes:

• Zeri can one-shot them at all points of the game, even at level 1.
• Boxes get stunned when an ally teleports to it, preventing the fear from going off until the teleport is complete.
• It would be great if a springy BOING! sound played as soon as a box is triggered.

But most of these things are quite minor, and I'm very happy with him as he is! I look forward to my next performance!